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kemporama
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| Posted: April 01 2012 at 23:13 | IP Logged
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This past fall when SmartHome did a recall and sent out replacements for the 2441v thermostat adaptors I sent my 4 adaptors back and got replacements. Before this my thermostats were all working great, but one of the replacements seemed to have issues as I started to frequently receive comm failurers (I have an email trigger of "Insteon Comm Failure" setup) on one particular adaptor. I recently called them and had them send me out a replacement.
I've installed the replacement, went into PH and did a "replace address" on the Devices tab with the new ID#, and I also updated it in PH explorer's thermostat section. The new device is hardware revision 2.4, the old was 2.2R.
I'm unable to get the new adaptor to talk to PH no matter what I try. When I try to recreate setting up my PLM to be a controller of the thermostat adaptor the request just sits in pending options and never leaves. If I hit the link button on the adaptor I see one line pop into the log, but nothing else.
Has anyone tried to link a v2.4 2441v to PH with success?
Thanks.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 02 2012 at 07:33 | IP Logged
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Many Insteon devices being received now require I2CS support for link database management with I2. These devices are dropping the Peek/Poke commands so it is not possible to fall back to I1 as an alternative. Perhaps posting the Insteon Raw Log will show something.
Also if you issue a Standard Get Engine command, cmd1=0x0D, and the cmd2 value in the ACK contains a 0x02 or 0xFF it is an I2CS device.
This is an example of a simple test that can be issued from the Formula Builder or a Macro to issue the 0x0D (13) command to a device.
ph_insteonraw("HL2 PLM","14.9E.F5",13,0)
This device returned a 0xFF in the ACK cmd2 field which indicates I2CS. A value of 0x02 also indicates I2CS.
2012-04-02 08:41:54.597 TX &nbs p; 02 62 14 9E F5 0F 0D 00
2012-04-02 08:41:54.878 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 14 9E F5 0F 0D 00 06
2012-04-02 08:41:54.988 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 9E F5 0F 44 DC AB 0D FF
Edited by grif091 - April 02 2012 at 08:01
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: April 02 2012 at 22:50 | IP Logged
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Here is a piece of my raw log when the system is trying to link the controller to the thermostat adaptor:
2012-04-02 22:53:25.921 TX &nbs p; sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:26.015 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:26.312 RX &nbs p; SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2012-04-02 22:53:26.562 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2012-04-02 22:53:26.703 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=04
2012-04-02 22:53:26.750 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=04 14 92 29 08 A9 46 A1 28 FB
2012-04-02 22:53:26.922 RX &nbs p; INSTEON NAK=14 92 29
2012-04-02 22:53:27.047 TX &nbs p; sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:27.156 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:27.390 RX &nbs p; SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2012-04-02 22:53:27.750 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=04
2012-04-02 22:53:27.906 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=04 14 92 29 08 A9 46 A1 28 FB
2012-04-02 22:53:28.015 RX &nbs p; INSTEON NAK=14 92 29
2012-04-02 22:53:29.375 TX &nbs p; sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:29.422 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 14 92 29 05 28 0F
2012-04-02 22:53:29.781 RX &nbs p; SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2012-04-02 22:53:30.031 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2012-04-02 22:53:30.062 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=04
I tried making a macro with the formula you posted, but I must be messing something up because when I run it nothing is added to the log file at all for it.
Assuming that this new version of the adaptor is now an I2 device (I will verify with Smarthome tomorrow if it is or not), is there anything special that I should have to do other than change the IEngine column in Devices to be I2 verses legacy? I've tried doing that, and reinitializing afterwards, but have had no luck, it appears to do the same thing.
Thanks.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 03 2012 at 03:07 | IP Logged
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The tstat adaptor is I2CS.
The Set MSB command is returning a value other than what the Set MSB tried to establish. It also NAKed the Set MSB command.
2012-04-02 22:53:26.750 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=04 14 92 29 08 A9 46 A1 28 FB
2012-04-02 22:53:26.922 RX &nbs p; INSTEON NAK=14 92 29
The FB should be 0F. The tstat adaptor rejected the Set MSB either because Peek/Poke commands have been dropped as most I2CS devices are doing and/or the PLC is not authorized to talk to the tstat adaptor. This is another aspect of I2CS.
There are multiple issues here. First the PLC being used for powerline communication does not support any I2 communication let alone I2CS. Second, Powerhome has no support for I2CS devices. I assume that will be coming with 2.1.5. Dave will have to comment on that aspect.
You need to move to a PLM to get I2/I2CS capability. Then Powerhome has to release support for I2CS. Many new Insteon devices now in the retail stream are I2CS devices. A Motion Sensor and FanLinc acquired a few weeks ago are I2CS. SwitchLincs are now shipping as I2CS. The number of devices coming as I2CS is only increasing with time.
Edited by grif091 - April 03 2012 at 05:46
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kemporama
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| Posted: April 03 2012 at 09:04 | IP Logged
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Thanks, Lee, for the info. I knew the day of having to upgrade to a PLM would get here eventually, it looks like it finally has.
I emailed Dave to see if there is an eta for the next version of PH that might support this. Hopefully this is in the works, as I'd really like to get control of this thermostat back again. I guess I will just send the old (unreliable) adaptor back and wait for the updated PH to be released so I can use the new one.
Thanks.
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 03 2012 at 10:39 | IP Logged
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kemporama,
I2CS support is in the works. Looks like I may have to revise the list of features in the next beta so I can get this version out ASAP. At my fastest though, I wouldnt expect to see anything for at least 3 weeks  .
The first thing I would try though is to confirm whether you've got an I2CS version of the thermostat. Open the PH Multi-Editor, press Shift-F6 (PH Formula) and type:
ph_insteonwithret("YOUR TSTAT ID",13,0)
Execute the above and note the return value. If the return is 2, then its I2CS. Make sure that the "YOUR TSTAT ID" is the ID that you've assigned the adaptor under the "Devices" tab and not the address.
If you do have an I2CS adaptor, all is not lost. Manually place your tstat into linking mode and then press the link button on your PLC to manually link the devices. You won't be able to use PH (or the PLC due to lack of extended commands) to create links but few people use the tstats with links and just manually monitor control via PowerHome instead. With this manual link created, you should then be able to monitor/control your tstat like you did previously.
If your adaptor isnt an I2CS, then we've got a different problem and we'll take it from there.
Let us know how it goes.
Dave.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 03 2012 at 11:43 | IP Logged
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I would add that an I2CS device may return a 0xFF rather than the 0x02. Without the link that allows the PLC/PLM to communicate with the I2CS device the FanLinc returns a 0xFF and NAKs the GetEngine command. If the authorizing link is there then the 0x0D command will return 0x02 which is the I2CS identifier. Receiving either a 0x02 or 0xFF indicates an I2CS device.
2012-04-02 08:41:54.597 TX &nbs p; 02 62 14 9E F5 0F 0D 00
2012-04-02 08:41:54.878 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=0F 44 DC 14 9E F5 0F 0D 00 06
2012-04-02 08:41:54.988 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 9E F5 0F 44 DC AB 0D FF
2012-04-02 08:41:55.081 RX &nbs p; INSTEON NAK=14 9E F5
Have not run this test on other I2CS devices.
Edited by grif091 - April 03 2012 at 12:20
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kemporama
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| Posted: April 06 2012 at 10:36 | IP Logged
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I finally just executed the command that Dave listed and it evaluated as "2".
I'll be ordering my PLM upgrade today so at least I won't have the hardware compatibility issue anymore.
Thanks.
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kemporama
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| Posted: April 14 2012 at 21:48 | IP Logged
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Update on my thermostat saga:
My new PLM arrived, and I've installed it and everything seems to have switched over to link to it in PH fairly well.
I did the manual linking of the tstat to the PLM like Dave said, as well as from the PLM to the tstat, in hopes of being able to control it thru PH, but it only half works. When I change the temp on the tstat itself the new temp is updated in PH, but when I try to change a setting on the device status window the change never gets sent to the tstat, the device status window looks like it's ignoring it. It does make these log entries:
Insteon out - INSTEON PLM Controller INSTEON transmission of Address:[14.92.29] Flags:[5] Cmd1:[107] Cmd2:[9]. Decode: Direct. ID: TSTAT_LIVING_RM, TStat Control
Insteon in - Incoming Insteon received on INSTEON PLM controller INSTEON. From Address:[14.92.29] To Address:[1C.F7.80] Flags:[161] Cmd1:[107] Cmd2:[253]. Decode: NAK of Direct. From: TSTAT_LIVING_RM To: POWERLINC1, TStat Control
Is there something else that I need to do, or maybe a setting I need to change on the Devices tab? I have "use ext for ALDB" checked as well as I2 in the IEngine picked.
Thanks.
Edited by kemporama - April 15 2012 at 08:49
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grif091
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| Posted: April 14 2012 at 22:10 | IP Logged
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The cmd1(107) is being rejected by the tstst with both a NAK and a 0xFD in the cmd2 field. That is the standard I2CS device rejection of a command from a PLM that is not authorized to talk to the I2CS device.
That response would indicate the PLM did not get linked to the tstat as hoped. Try linking the PLM again. Put the PLM into linking mode first, then press the Set button on the tstat which should create a Responder link in the tatat adaptor.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 15 2012 at 08:16 | IP Logged
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You might try issuing the cmd1=107 cmd2=9 as an extended command with a value of 0x8C in D14. I'm following a tstat problem on another forum and noticed the 107 command for an I2CS tstat is being issued as an extended command. The extended command requires a value in D14, the last byte of extended data, which for the cmd1=107 cmd2=9 is 0x8C. The D14 extended data is entered as 8C
ph_insteonwithretext("device id",107,9,"00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 8C")
Edited by grif091 - April 15 2012 at 08:55
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kemporama
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| Posted: April 15 2012 at 09:46 | IP Logged
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Just tried to do the linking again but no luck, it didn't create a responder link.
I've never had to do anything with extended commands before, and I've been searching around for other threads that talk about them but haven't had much luck. Can you tell me where exactly I'm supposed to enter the commands at? I can't figure it out.  Sorry.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 15 2012 at 10:34 | IP Logged
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What was used to determine the link was not created with the Set button?
Where you are executing the Standard cmd1=107 command now, simply change it to the extended example I added to my last post.
After typing the last line it makes me think you are using some Powerhome front end to control the tstat rather than issue commands to it through a Macro. If that is the case I do not know where to find the commands a Powerhome front end GUI would be issuing commands.
Edited by grif091 - April 15 2012 at 10:35
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kemporama
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| Posted: May 06 2012 at 21:19 | IP Logged
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You're right, I'm using the built in PH Device Status screen to try to control the thermostat.
I'm guessing that once Dave releases the next version of PH that can handle I2CS that this will help things to fall into place again how I was used to them with the older thermostat adaptors? I really hope so.
Just now I've noticed that I have a stuck pending operation "SCAN LINK: Record 1 Device TstatName (xx.xx.xx)" that is flooding my event log with entires. The only way I can get it to stop is if I disable the device in PH explorer. There is nothing linked to it on the links tab. How can I get this to stop cluttering my log?
Thanks.
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Topic: Thermostat 2441v problem
