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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 20:03 | IP Logged
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I just replaced a KeypadLinc today using the Replace Device option in PowerHome. The devices controlled by the KeypadLinc are also controlled by a ControLinc on my desk.
After the replace process was completed the KeypadLinc is able to control all modules as before. I can still control them from the ControLinc on my desk as well and the KeypadLinc LEDs correctly change to match the status of the load EXCEPT when I use All Off or All On. When I use those buttons on the ControLinc, only button 1 on the KeypadLinc changes. The 4 small buttons stay the way they are.
I tried rebuilding the links in the ControLinc but that did not solve it. Do I need to link the buttons manually for this to work right? (I think I ran into this once before but I can't remember what I did to fix it)
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 19 2006 at 23:09 | IP Logged
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Mike,
You shouldnt have to do any manual linking...PowerHome should be able to handle it all. Just so Im clear, this is my recap:
KeypadLinc replaced using the "Replace" function. The KeypadLinc buttons still control the devices they are linked to.
A ControLinc is also linked to the same devices controlled by the KeypadLinc. The ControLinc successfully controls the devices. The ControLinc must also have links to the KPL buttons (in addition to the devices controlled) since the KPL buttons turn on/off when the ControLinc is controlled.
The problem is when using the All on/off button on the ControLinc...it controls the devices (which are linked) but not the KPL buttons (which are also linked). If that is the case, then it really makes no sense. Doing a rebuild on the ControLinc should not make any difference. When the ControLinc All on/off button is pressed, it merely sends a single group broadcast command to group 255 without any group cleanup commands. This would be 3 bytes of the ControLinc address, 3 bytes for the group (00 00 FF), 1 flag byte, a command byte (on or off), and a 00 data byte.
What should happen is that any device that "hears" the group broadcast should search it's link database and see if it has any links where the ControLinc address is the controller. If it finds "any" link (it's group 255), then it should respond. The link has got to exist because it works when you send a group 1-5 (the ControLinc buttons) command. It almost sounds like there may be different firmware in the KPL that changes this functionality (SmartHome certainly wouldnt do that).
The one thing you may try is a "Rebuild" on the KPL. I don't see that it would make much difference (since the links have to exist and work in order for the ControLinc to light the buttons at all) but you never know.
Let me know how it goes and if Ive summed up everything correctly. This one really makes no sense. If the rebuild on the KPL doesnt work, it may be best to send me a copy of the database so I can check it out.
Dave.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 00:01 | IP Logged
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Yes your summary is correct. It must be a firmware change. The new Keypad is one of the recent ones where the button LEDs don't flicker from Insteon traffic. I guess they changed something else as well. I tried linking manually and that did not fix it. I'll rebuild both the Keypad and the ControLinc one more time and then maybe I will have to call SmartHome support and see what they have to say.
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 00:11 | IP Logged
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Mike,
Definately keep me posted on what they say. That will really suck if they changed the way the expected behaviour works and doesnt make it easy to support with every device acting differently based upon firmware level.
Dave.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 00:30 | IP Logged
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I just rebuilt the keypad. No change. Interesting that button 1 on the KeypadLinc responds fine to the ALL ON and ALL OFF from the ControLinc. It is just the small buttons that ignore them.
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 00:45 | IP Logged
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I can see them making the change that way and only having button 1 respond because that is the "load" button. It's probably an oversight on their part and they didnt verify that "all on/off" would properly light the non-load controlled buttons.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 17:54 | IP Logged
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Called tech support this morning and they said they would research it and get back to me... but they never did. I'm beginning to think this is a problem that has always existed with ControLincs and KeypadLincs and I am just remembering incorrectly when I think it used to work.
If this is really the case then I am done with Insteon. It would mean there is no way of keeping the keypad LEDs in sync with the modules those buttons control whenever a ControLinc is part of the mix. (Unless I give all the buttons X-10 addresses so the X-10 signal can sync the LEDs.
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MTeator
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 20:59 | IP Logged
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UpstateMike,
I can confirm that when I hit "All On" on my ControLinc, all the buttons including #1 will light up on my KeypadLinc.
All the links were set up with the tap tap method, before I installed PowerHome.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 21:35 | IP Logged
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Thanks MTeator. I'll clear them both and start from scratch with tap-tap and see if that works.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 22:17 | IP Logged
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No Luck. Maybe the ControLinc isn't really rebuilding clean. Even when I do a factory reset on the ControLinc, the ALL OFF and ALL ON still works on the lamp modules it was linked to even though the link table should be empty.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: June 22 2006 at 17:38 | IP Logged
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PROBLEM RESOLVED
It turns out there is a firmware bug in KeypaLincs relating to the order in which links are created. If you link a ControLinc to the the buttons on a KeypadLinc and the first link you create is the one to the Load button (button 1) then ALL ON and ALL OFF on the controLinc will affect the KeypadLinc load button only. If you create the links the the small buttons first (3-6) then the ALL ON and ALL OFF commands will control all KeypadLinc LEDs as expected.
This should be resolved in the next KeypadLinc firmware revision but for now it may cause you problems if you use the Replace or Rebuild Links functions on any KeypadLincs that are linked to ControLincs.
Edited by UpstateMike - June 22 2006 at 17:40
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crisx
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| Posted: October 11 2006 at 20:22 | IP Logged
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Just discovered (for me at least) that this behavior can exist between two keypadlincs as well. I have a button on a KPL set up as non-toggle-OFF and was linked to buttons 1 and 2 on KPL #2. When button 1 on KPL #2 was linked first, button 2 would remain lit. When I deleted both links and linked button 2 on KPL #2 first, everything worked as expected. PH makes it easy to see the order the links were created in the 'Rec #' columns of Insteon Explorer.
The moral of the story - if you are going to link to more than 1 button on a KPL, and one of them is button 1, ALWAYS link button #1 LAST. Hopefully this will save someone else the hour and a half I just spent!
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Topic: ContrLinc and KeypadLinc
