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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 17:36 | IP Logged
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I have been casually using PH for about 1.5 years and love it but am trying to figure out why some of my light switches periodically seem to have a mind of their own.
I have 4 sets of paired porch lights and 1 single light controlled by insteon 2466D toggle link switches
I use macros and timed events to turn them on at sunset and off at sunrise (+/- 90 min or so.
I occasionally get into a situation where one (sometimes more than 1) pair of lights will refuse to obey the on/dim and off commands in the macro. In doing some detailed investigation this week on this situation I found that I could manually issue a fast off command using the Insteon Explorer Devices screen and turn the light off, however after a few minutes it creeps back on gradually from nothing to almost full brightness. No mater how many times I turn it off with fast off, it comes back on as described above.
I noticed the following in the event log during the macro execution. I have no idea where an X10 command would be originating from since I removed all X10 devices when I switched to insteon.
9/17/2010 20:06:06.558 3 ; Incoming X10 received on Insteon DM controller 2814U.
Byte Values: 01 4A
Decode: {Preset Dim 3} &nbs p;371
Incoming X10 0 &n bsp;#000000 65280 &n bsp; #00ff00
Here is the full event log for that macro execution for that light switch;
9/17/2010 20:06:06.558 3 ; Incoming X10 received on Insteon DM controller 2814U.
Byte Values: 01 4A
Decode: {Preset Dim 3} &nbs p;371
Incoming X10 0 &n bsp;#000000 65280 &n bsp; #00ff00
9/17/2010 20:06:06.318 30 &nbs p; Incoming Insteon received on Insteon DM controller 2814U.
From Address:[07.24.24]
To Address:[00.00.01]
Flags:[199]
Cmd1:[39]
Cmd2:[186].
Decode: Group Broadcast. From: SPL Group: 1, Status Changed ; 370 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
9/17/2010 20:06:05.887 30 &nbs p; Incoming Insteon received on Insteon DM controller 2814U.
From Address:[07.24.24]
To Address:[05.09.F0]
Flags:[47]
Cmd1:[17]
Cmd2:[84].
Decode: Direct ACK. From: SPL To: POWERLINC1, On &nbs p;369 Insteon In 0 &nb sp;#000000 65280 &nb sp; #00ff00
9/17/2010 20:06:05.046 31 &nbs p; Insteon DM Controller 2814U transmission of Address:[07.24.24]
Flags:[15]
Cmd1:[17]
Cmd2:[84].
Decode: Direct. ID: SPL, On &nbs p;367
Insteon Out 0 &n bsp;#000000 16776960 ; #00ffff
Here is the full raw log for the same:
2010-09-17 20:06:05.036 TX &nbs p; sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 07 24 24 0F 11 54
2010-09-17 20:06:05.046 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 07 24 24 0F 11 54
2010-09-17 20:06:05.386 RX &nbs p; SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2010-09-17 20:06:05.607 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-17 20:06:05.627 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-17 20:06:05.737 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=04
2010-09-17 20:06:05.887 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=04 07 24 24 05 09 F0 2F 11 54
2010-09-17 20:06:05.977 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-17 20:06:05.997 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-17 20:06:06.017 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-17 20:06:06.217 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=02
2010-09-17 20:06:06.318 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=02 07 24 24 00 00 01 C7 27 BA
2010-09-17 20:06:06.558 RX &nbs p; EVENTRAW=08
2010-09-17 20:06:06.558 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10RAW=01 4A
2010-09-17 20:06:06.618 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10=PRESET DIM 6%
I am going to attempt to upload some reports representing what is in the database for device 07.24.24 (SPL) the side porch light.2010-09-18_173258_PH_Device_Link_report.zip
Any assistance in helping me regain control of my lights and understanding this situation is greatly appreciated.
If I can conquer this and come away with a good understanding I have more things I plan to implement using PH.
Thanks in advance for your time and assistance,
Herb Jones
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Herb Jones
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grif091
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 18:58 | IP Logged
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The X10 signal can come from a neighbors house or just be noise on the powerline. Try changing the House/Unit code to something else.
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Lee G
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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 21:13 | IP Logged
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Thanks for the reply Lee,
I consistently get this X10 response when my macro triggers so i don't think it is a random event. The only X10 devices that I may still have plugged in are some appliance devices that I tried to use to control turning some box fans on and off. For some reason when I tried to set that up in PH, it never did work, but I suspect it is somehow still involved in this issue.
My knowledge of this is somewhat limited but it seems as if the toggle link has a scene stored and is returning back to it for some reason.
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Herb Jones
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TonyNo
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 21:28 | IP Logged
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Hmm. Did you get that device used? Maybe it has some old scenes in it (I have seen this personally).
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 22:17 | IP Logged
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Since you switched to Insteon is there a possibility some of your Insteon devices have X10 configurations in them. Check the manuals for the individual devices for resetting them if that is the case. If everything else fails reset the devices to factory level.
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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 22:51 | IP Logged
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All of my insteon devices were direct replacements for their x10 equivalents, none were ever intentionally set to work with x10 commands.
For what it is worth, all of this seems to have started shortly after I first attempted to control 2 x10 appliance modules that I put back into use in an attempt to control some floor box fans. I never did get PH set to control them. This goes back almost a year ago and the random issue with the toggle links has moved around from one switch to another over the past year. After misbehaving for some period of time (days to weeks or months), the misbehaving switch will begin to work normally. Then sometime later, another toggle link will take on the misbehaving role.
I know it is something that I have done related to my failed attempts to control the x10 appliance modules, but I don't know what it is.
Thanks to everyone for their replies. Let me know what else I can provide in the way of information. If logging in to my PH web server would help, I can arrange that.
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Herb Jones
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 18 2010 at 23:54 | IP Logged
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If you have defined X10 under devices you might remove all references from it if you’re not using them. Also you might try clearing the PLC and reloading min. Although I don’t know if that will cure an X10 problem. What I saw in the trace was what appeared to be noise. If you could submit more trace info it might help.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 19 2010 at 09:25 | IP Logged
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Here is the latest log information from early this morning when the macro to turn the lights off was executed. Time is at 07:08:24 for SPL.
2010-09-19_092541_partial_PH_logs-2010-09-19.zip
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grif091
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| Posted: September 19 2010 at 11:16 | IP Logged
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Can you expand on "4 sets of paired porch lights".
The raw log show that two of the switches (BPL & SPL) tried to send Group messages using cmd1=0x27 in response to the Fast Off issued by the respective Timed Event. The 0x27 command is used to “Updates SwitchLinc Companion’s LEDs.”. I think the Insteon traffic from the switch that is reacting to the Fast Off is overlapping the Insteon traffic the next Timed Event is trying to send.
I suggest putting a few second delay between the cluster of Timed Events sending the Fast Offs so that the switch receiving the Fast Off has a chance to update the Companion switch.
Edited by grif091 - September 19 2010 at 11:19
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 19 2010 at 11:41 | IP Logged
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To add to what Lee saw I didn’t see any X10 traffic. To my knowledge, by design, there shouldn’t be any overlap but Lee would know best on that issue. I would not use Fast On because of reliability issues. I have had problems in the pass with Fast On and I believe it is related to the fact I have so much noise on the line.
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grif091
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| Posted: September 19 2010 at 14:21 | IP Logged
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Hey Pete,
I’ve not used the SwitchLinc Companion package (the 2 wire kit) but it looks like the ICON switch sends the 0x27 command to the Companion in-line linc equivalent automatically when the ICON switch receives Insteon Direct commands (Fast Off in this case but I suspect it would be the same for a standard On/Off command) so the Companion controls the actual load since the ICON switch has no Load connection. With the Timed Event Insteon traffic coming just hundreds of milliseconds apart I think the 0x27 command from the ICON switch to the companion is getting on the powerline at the same time. For some of the Timed Events the receiving switch did not send the 0x27 or at least it was not received and traced by the PH2 controller. I’m guessing but I think the X10 traffic that was in the initial post is simply trash on the powerline from the coincident traffic. As you say that normally should not happen but with the two events happening so close together I think both the controller traffic and the ICON traffic are being initiated at the same time. Too close together for either to detect the others traffic. PH2 is waiting for the ACK from the Fast Off but it is not expecting the ICON switch to generate more traffic to the companion after the ACK. Could be wrong about all this. Putting a few second delay between the Timed Events will quickly determine if this is the cause.
Edited by grif091 - September 19 2010 at 15:55
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 19 2010 at 14:40 | IP Logged
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I like your thoughts on the overlay but if we got away from the Fast On and went to an acknowledged On won’t that help with overlap?
Edited by BeachBum - September 19 2010 at 17:18
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grif091
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Pete,
I don’t think the command will make any difference. The Fast Off command is ACKed (07:08:29.302) by 07.24.24. PH2 starts the outbound command flow for the next Timed Event. In the middle of the next Timed Event sequence device 07.24.24 generates (07:08:29.973) a Group 1 message with cmd1=27 to update the companion device. This command was generated by 07.24.24 671 milliseconds after it sent the ACK to the Fast Off. I’m assuming 07.24.24 would ACK an On command the same way it ACKed the Fast Off.
2010-09-19 07:08:28.431 TX sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 07 24 24 0F 14 00
2010-09-19 07:08:28.491 RX SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 07 24 24 0F 14 00 FAST ON
2010-09-19 07:08:28.832 RX SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2010-09-19 07:08:29.052 RX EVENTRAW=03
2010-09-19 07:08:29.172 RX EVENTRAW=04
2010-09-19 07:08:29.302 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=04 07 24 24 05 09 F0 2F 14 00 FAST ON ACK
2010-09-19 07:08:29.462 TX sendinsteonraw=00 00 00 07 81 6A 0F 14 00
2010-09-19 07:08:29.483 RX SENTINSTEON=00 00 00 07 81 6A 0F 14 00
2010-09-19 07:08:29.533 RX EVENTRAW=02
2010-09-19 07:08:29.743 RX SENDINSTEONRAW=TRUE
2010-09-19 07:08:29.973 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=02 07 24 24 00 00 01 CF 27 BA GROUP 1 CMD1=27
I check the hurricane track every morning. It was so quiet for so long and now just one storm after another. Believe you are right, one of us will see something bad before this season ends.
Lee
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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 20 2010 at 09:22 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
Can you expand on "4 sets of paired porch lights".
The raw log show that two of the switches (BPL & SPL) tried to send Group messages using cmd1=0x27 in response to the Fast Off issued by the respective Timed Event. The 0x27 command is used to “Updates SwitchLinc Companion’s LEDs.”. I think the Insteon traffic from the switch that is reacting to the Fast Off is overlapping the Insteon traffic the next Timed Event is trying to send.
I suggest putting a few second delay between the cluster of Timed Events sending the Fast Offs so that the switch receiving the Fast Off has a chance to update the Companion switch.
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The four sets of paired lights are 4 separate toggle link switches each controlling the power supply to a pair of triple bulb lights where the lights are on each side of a door or window.
Each toggle link switch is intended to be "stand alone" in controlling the lights controlled by it. I have not intentionally setup any kind of shared "companion" switch or other appliance.
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grif091
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I do not know why the ToggleLincs are sending the Group 1 cmd1=27 messages under the configuration you describe. The only way I know to get that function active is to turn it on with an explicit command. Also SPL has a responder link for 08.9E.E8 which is odd if there is no relationship with another device. Since those devices are not suppose to be linked to anything else I would Factory Reset the devices to clear out any links and options that might have been set from SH. I would also add a few second delay between the cluster of Timed Events to insure there is no overlap should the ToggleLincs continue to send the Group 1 cmd1=27 Broadcast messages.
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BeachBum
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Do you have an old BoosterLinc in the network? If so it can also cause interesting problems if not compatible with the device. I agree with Lee the links maybe broken.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 20 2010 at 10:19 | IP Logged
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Lee, did you check out his 1st database link report? I would have thought BPL and SPL should have had a controller linked to them.
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grif091
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| Posted: September 20 2010 at 11:23 | IP Logged
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Pete, all the commands being issued in the trace are Insteon Direct commands which do not use links. The unusual Broadcast message is used in cases where Controller links have not been established. The SimpleHomeNet line of devices has an optional mode where device state changes are noted with a Broadcast only message. In fact if a Controller link is established it suppresses the Broadcast message. SH is so closed with the various command information a ToggleLinc could well work differently. With more than one ToggleLinc issuing the Broadcast message I have to assume it is an architected feature.
Herb, what type of lights are being controlled by the ToggleLincs. You mentioned be connected to a power supply for the lights. The ToggleLincs are Dimmers. Connecting a Dimmer to something other than the type of load the Dimmer was meant to control can cause the ToggleLinc or load to respond in strange ways. Not limited to ToggleLincs. That applies to all Insteon Dimmers.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: September 20 2010 at 11:42 | IP Logged
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Lee, thanks for the clarification. I need to buy lunch again.
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Herb Jones
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| Posted: September 21 2010 at 16:45 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
| I do not know why the ToggleLincs are sending the Group 1 cmd1=27 messages under the configuration you describe. The only way I know to get that function active is to turn it on with an explicit command. Also SPL has a responder link for 08.9E.E8 which is odd if there is no relationship with another device. Since those devices are not suppose to be linked to anything else I would Factory Reset the devices to clear out any links and options that might have been set from SH. I would also add a few second delay between the cluster of Timed Events to insure there is no overlap should the ToggleLincs continue to send the Group 1 cmd1=27 Broadcast messages. |
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Sorry for the delayed response, had to make an out of town trip and will be away from my pc during most of the standard daytime hours for until Sunday afternoon.
Ok, some updates:
1. I discovered that what I had plugged in for a controller was an Icon PC timer system 2814U (id = 05.09.F0), I now have the powerlinc 2414U (id = 08.9E.E8)that should have been plugged into the pc running powerhome.
2. I cleared the powerlinc and reloaded it using the "min" function.
3. I attempted to put a 5 second delay in the macro between subsequent fast off commands.
4. Attached are partial event and raw logs representing the execution of my macro used in the timed events.
5. I am still getting the x10 response to the SPL (side porch light) command in the macro.
6. If I manually execute the fastoff command from within the insteon explorer devices tab control button, the light goes off but then gradually returns back to full brightness.
7. When I view the light's status in the device status window, it shows 'Dimmed,74'. which appears to be the brightness level that it gradually returns to after a fastoff.
8. Clicking the off button within the device status window shows the light turning off however the light is actually still on at the 74 brightness level (per a wireless camera that I used to debug things I cannot directly see).
Basically my problem is "why does the light not turn off sometimes using certain off functions" and why does it return to the 74 brightness level after receiving and responding to a FASTOFf command.
The toggle link wall switch for this light and the BPL (back porch light) are unfortunately located behind some rather large antique furniture in our kitchen eating area, and it takes quite an effort to move things around in order to gain access to the physical switch.
Is there a way to remotely (using PH?) to perform a factory reset of a toggle link?
Again, all responses have been very appreciated.2010-09-21_164519_partial_PH-Raw_Log-2010-09-20-002.zip
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Herb Jones
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Topic: Having trouble controlling my lights
