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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 13:02 | IP Logged
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I think everyone knows that I'm a big supporter/promoter of Powerhome, giving it (albeit deserved) mention on ElectronicHouse.com, the Smarthome Forum and elsewhere. Dave has done great things, and I think we all appreciate how far the program has come.
However, I have to admit, I get worried when posts like this one
http://www.myx10.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2176&PN=1
go unanswered for days. I've experienced this myself in past months, posting technical questions and having to wait many days (and sometimes add a "bump") to get an answer. Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of helpful posters on this forum, but sometimes a question is so technical it requires, well, real tech. support.
Like the poster in the thread above, I have been contemplating upgrading to 2.0. My house literally runs off of Powerhome (i.e., it's mission-critical), so I've had some trepidation about the upgrade because of where it would leave me if it didn't work. Seeing posts like the one above go unanswered for 4 days doesn't encourage my confidence.
It didn't use to be this way. When I first downloaded the trial version of PH, I posted pages of questions, and Dave posted pages of answers, for which I was appreciative, impressed, and became not only a customer but an evangelizer. I still am both, but have to admit I wonder a bit about how often Dave checks the forum these days. I know he has a life (which he deserves) and is working on upgrades, and I did see him help with critical bugs when 2.0 first came out, but I have to ask: Are you there Dave? And if I try to upgrade and end up in a pickle (new one doesn't work, can't go back to old one), will you be listening when I post?
/j
(and no, I don't really expect a response from Dave, or anyone, on Easter Sunday 8-})
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grif091
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 15:18 | IP Logged
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It is Easter so I will stick my head in the lion’s mouth.
First, I say this with absolutely no disrespect intended. One might question the wisdom of using Insteon, a PC and related applications in a mission critical environment. Having made that decision and accepted the responsibilities for managing a mission critical environment, there is no risk going to PowerHome2. You will install PH2 on a separate PC, and after running it for sufficient weeks/months to be comfortable it meets your mission critical objectives, switch to it full time, keeping the existing PH1 environment for immediate backup for a few more months. When you are comfortable the total environment running PH2 meets the mission critical objective, back up the PH1 environment on a media that will allow restoration in a short period of time and install PH2 on the PH1 system for backup.
That is the way any missing critical environment must be managed. Any thought of installing PH2 over top of PH1 on your primary system (or any other application for that matter) in a mission critical environment is just nuts.
As for the PH forum and the responsiveness of Dave, I feel certain PowerHome is a part time activity. It would be unrealistic to expect the PH forum to respond in a fashion more responsive than companies that are doing it as a full time business.
I apologize if I have offended in any way, it was not my intention. I worked for a major hardware/software company for 38 years. Some 15 of those years were working out of a large East coast branch office servicing hardware and software, commercial and government accounts, in mission critical environments. There are so many requirements for managing a mission critical environment that what I have said here does not begin to scratch the surface. The bottom line is managing a mission critical environment is your responsibility, not PowerHome, Microsoft, Smarthome, SmartLabs and the dozens of other companies that are involved with and can affect your operating environment.
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Lee G
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 15:50 | IP Logged
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Hi Lee- I can't tell if you're being serious or not. PH + INSTEON + PC has been very very reliable for me. Operates correctly 99.9% of the time, and let's me know whenever it doesn't (it does one or the other 100.0% of the time, best I can tell). I suppose I could try the 2-PC method in order to upgrade, but I'd prefer to know that I can get reasonable support if there is a problem.
My Email was meant constructively. I fear that if people can't get their problems addressed it will hurt the popularity and future of Powerhome. I'm sure Dave has other things in his life (and said so), but I'm also sure he wants PH to be as successful as possible, and when people see posts like the one I mentioned go unanswered for days, it doesn't help.
Best Regards
/j
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nadler
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 16:12 | IP Logged
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Jeff,
I know that Dave many times contacts the poster directly
and uses VNC to work with the user and the user's
computer directly. I know he has done that for me and
others in the past. Usually, the problem has nothing to
do with PH but has something to do with the users
configuration or PC (at least that was true in my case).
The results don't necessarily get posted on the board
(although I agree that it would be better if the results
did get posted).
I don't know whether Dave contacted the poster in
question here. Certainly the poster has not come back
and complained. I'm also certain others on this board
would have helped the poster if we had relevant helpful
info. But from what I can tell he is running a pretty
old version of PH and I, for one, would be of no help.
I also use PH2 for mission critical automation stuff and
it has been 100% rock solid for me for quite some time.
My computer, on the other hand, has not. I have over
time added a backup power supply and ELK for security.
I also use ELK for emergency light automation backup
just in case my computer crashes when I am away for an
extended period of time.
In short, I think you can confidently upgrade to PH2.
You will get lots of support from users here and I am
sure Dave will chime in when necessary.
Noel
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 19:22 | IP Logged
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Lee, we both worked in the same environment and the true meaning of Mission Critical is well understood. That being said I think Jeff is referring to more a personal Mission Critical and I fully understand. PH has the reputation of responsive customer support and Dave has done an excellent job at this but there are times when Dave has become invisible and there really isn’t anyone who can fill his shoes. Usually when no one responds is because none of us has the solution. Otherwise the forum would be cluttered. I as others were gone when this post was originally posted and Jeff I assume when Dave gets on board he will respond as it is quite evident he is probably the only one with the solution. And don’t get me wrong I am a fan of yours and all those great articles. My 2 cents worth
Edited by BeachBum - April 12 2009 at 19:23
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 19:24 | IP Logged
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what he (Beachbum) said 8-}
/j
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moniputer
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 19:59 | IP Logged
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Maybe we should all pay for major upgrades or support.
I have been using PH for about two years and paid Dave around $70. He can't be making much money on license fees.
I paid SmartHome over $4,500 for my Insteon devices, and I pay Symantec and several other companies that much each year for software or upgrades.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:39 | IP Logged
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I agree completely that “mission critical” in the commercial world, and even more so in a government environment means something much more than when applied to a private residence. Of course there is a difference. It could cost a commercial account many thousands of dollars in float because a “mission critical” system was down. However, it does mean something. It means the environment is orders of magnitude more critical than any normal house running automation 24/7. It means you have an independent mirror backup on another machine that lets you restore the operation of the house within minutes. It means you never, never, never update your primary 24/7 system with the next incremental application update, let alone jump 4,5,6 releases when doing an update. It is either truly “mission critical” within its environment and is actively managed as such or it is not really “mission critical” and should not be described that way simply to get a faster answer to a question. It is the rarest of occasions when one needs a fast answer on a properly managed “mission critical” system.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:48 | IP Logged
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Lee, as in the past, you are my hero… Well said my friend.
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 21:07 | IP Logged
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/j
Edited by jeffw_00 - April 12 2009 at 21:08
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 21:16 | IP Logged
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It always surprises me when I see a post that says "well, I don't really expect my home control system to work all the time, after all, it's not that well-designed" or some such, and that attitude (perhaps brought on by the quality of many X-10 systems) is part of the reason Home Control is such a limited market. Conversely, I would argue that if home control to be taken seriously, then
vendors should realize that people need these systems to work reliably, and customers should be able to count on some reasonable level of support.
[Aside: One reason I ditched Houselinc was when I discovered SH would give you no way to rollback to an older rev. of software. So if you upgraded, and things didn't work, you were hosed. What were they thinking?]
Do I think people who's PH system is down should get an answer in an hour? Of course not, not for $70 But a few days would be good, and I think a week isn't an unreasonable expectation.
[Aside2: My backup program is Image for Windows, similar to PH in that it's an inexpensive program written by a 1-person company, and all support is by forum/newsgroup, where the author seems to handle all qns within a couple of days. An awesome program, BTW, as is it's related program BootitNG]
To be honest, I hadn't expected this thread to go down the path it has, and I'd like to think most people know what I meant by "mission critical". But anyway, whatever point I had was well-made by BB a few replies back, and there's no need to rehash it. Please feel free to continue the "mission critical" discussions.
8-}
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 12 2009 at 22:57 | IP Logged
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Tah dah, Im here...and on Easter Sunday  .
Sorry to be so absent so much recently, but I actually try to take a back seat to posting on the forum so that others can chime in and help "fill in" for me. I have all forum messages forwarded to me via email and I read every one. If Im called out by name, I'll definately make a point to respond or if I see that the current members are unable to provide support. The reason I do this is if I was involved at the level that I used to be (answering every post), I would have no time for further development (the forum and the user base has increased significantly  ).
One of the things that I would like to setup, is a weekly "chat" night for an hour or two (assuming there is any interest). Ive been talking with Tonyno and I know I have the opportunity to have Dan (Electron) setup a dedicated PowerHome Chat forum at Cocoontech.com. What I would do is be online and available for PowerHome question and answer sessions (might need to make this bi-weekly...would have to see how it goes  ).
Anyways, concerning the upgrade to PH2. You should be fairly safe in upgrading as long as you follow the upgrade instructions. Part of the upgrade process is to shutdown PowerHome and rename the existing PowerHome directory. The new version is then installed (into the default directory which will now be different from your existing PH install because of the earlier rename). You then copy the database and INI files, perform a DB upgrade (on the copy you just made) and you're good to go. If for some reason you've got problems or you just want to go back, just rename the new PH install to something different and then rename your old PH install to what it was. You'll then be able to run the old version same as you always did.
Hope this helps,
Dave.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 13 2009 at 00:01 | IP Logged
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“One of the things that I would like to setup, is a weekly "chat" night for an hour or two”. Dave that’s a great idea but I might suggest that it be driven as needed meaning if requested. A lot of times some of us can eventually find the solution where as you it’s an immediate fix. Grif and I, having been in the “problem determination” arena, understand that a problem can be milked to death but at other time the solution can be very beneficial. Your support is greatly appreciated and we understand sometimes you appear to go into hiding. All kidding aside, keep up the good work and thanks for a great product.
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 13 2009 at 09:36 | IP Logged
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Great answer Dave - I shall sleep sounder going forward 8-}
/j
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funbobbybaby69
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| Posted: April 19 2009 at 08:19 | IP Logged
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moniputer wrote:
Maybe we should all pay for major upgrades or support.
I have been using PH for about two years and paid Dave around $70. He can't be making much money on license fees.
I paid SmartHome over $4,500 for my Insteon devices, and I pay Symantec and several other companies that much each year for software or upgrades.
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I completely agree with Moniputer. I certainly don't expect Dave to sit in front of his computer 24/7. (especially with the one time fee of $70) Just throwing this out there but what if there was a "Donation" icon at the bottom of each user's window. After a few years without paying for any support I feel I am in dept to certain people. (grif091  ) When I run into a problem and all I want is for it to work I would rather pay a small fee to have someone help me. Rather than sit on it for days waiting for someone to post a plausible solution. Maybe that would encourage people to post/respond sooner.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: April 20 2009 at 17:10 | IP Logged
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funbobbybaby69 wrote:
| Just throwing this out there but what if there was a "Donation" icon at the bottom of each user's window. |
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Ugh, no! I don't mind donation buttons/nag screens on free/trialware stuff, but not on software I paid for.
But, I do agree on one point: perhaps a "premium support" option would be the best way to go. To address Jeff's original concern, the fact is, none of this can be considered mission critical in any definition of the word. Dave is a one man show (a good one man show, but a one man show nonetheless) and if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, there's not a lot any of us can do. So, I think we have to accept the fact that home automation is, for the most part, a DIY industry right now with a few exceptions.
DIY is often community driven, and that's largely what we see here. There have been a few people that have, over time, either implicitly or explicitly implied that unless the answer comes from Dave, it's "not good enough." Clearly Dave has the most in-depth knowledge, but some of the people here have done some amazing things and offer their help.
So, a premium support option might work for those that need/want something more, either on a subscription or per-incident basis. That way, those like Jeff (if he opted for it) perhaps wouldn't feel guilty or burdensome for pinging Dave directly via an email or phone, with the expectation there would be response within an agreed upon SLA.
Also, such a plan wouldn't "violate" any TOS current users have (free upgrades/etc). It's a value add you can optionally sign up for, or not.
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jeffw_00
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| Posted: April 20 2009 at 17:15 | IP Logged
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I think the premium support option would put response-time constraints on Dave which I wouldn't sign up for if I was him, but I think Dave should just charge for significant upgrades. I see this in a number of other shareware programs that I buy. The only downside is that he may feel he still has to provide support who people who don't upgrade (though he doesn't have to, and his older SW is so stable it's probably not an issue).
/j
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Topic: PH support?
