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Handman
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| Posted: July 11 2014 at 19:30 | IP Logged
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I have several of the Insteon motion sensors (2420M). One of them recently had the battery die (apparently). I replaced the battery and it still turns on/off the linked Insteon lights, but PowerHome isn’t receiving the signals so a macro doesn’t run (this had been a problem for a few months, but I ignored it). I tried to factory reset the device but was unable to (the red LED never goes out indicating a reset). I try to communicate with the device with Lee’s macro and am unable. In fact, Powerhome doesn’t record any raw Insteon when I activate it or when I press the white button inside the 2420M. Still, it does seem to be linked to the lights, but not detected by PH. I have placed a dual band receiver right next to it without response – the other two motion sensors I own are detected by PH and I can adjust them with Lee’s macro. Am I missing something, or do you think the device is defective? If so, how come it is communicating with the linked Insteon devices, but not PH?
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dhoward
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| Posted: July 11 2014 at 20:28 | IP Logged
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Handman,
Most likely one of two things. The link from the motion sensor to the PLM does not exist in the motion sensor and/or the address of the motion sensor is not in the PLM database.
The latter problem is real easy to fix and the first thing I would do. In the Insteon Explorer on the Setup tab, press the "Clear" button followed by the "Add Full" button. This will add all the device links to the PLM.
If this doesnt fix it, verify that you have a link defined within PowerHome with the motion sensor as a controller and the PLM as a responder. Press the "Rebuild" text on the links tab if necessary.
Not sure if you're on 2.1.5 but if you arent, I highly recommend you upgrade to it. It has much better I2CS support and includes options to configure the motion sensor without having to use a macro.
Hope this helps,
Dave.
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Handman
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| Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:22 | IP Logged
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Thanks Dave, I had tried adding the MS as controller and responder to no avail (none of my motion sensors have any controllers or responders). Of course the fact that it had suddenly disappeared from my PLM DB didn't register. An ADD FULL did the trick. Thank you.
I have also added myself to the list of successful 2.1.5 users now. Can't wait to experiment. I have a list of PH maintenance items to deal with, so this should be a good opportunity! Thank you Dave and all the others who contributed to this wonderful home automation effort. Now if only the Smarthome hardware was as reliable....
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smarty
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| Posted: July 12 2014 at 12:39 | IP Logged
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I too will be looking to use 2.1.5 to set up a bunch of Insteon motion sensors.... Hoping for the best.
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smarty
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| Posted: January 03 2015 at 18:16 | IP Logged
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Starting to give Insteon Motion Sensors another try...
I have a couple of questions:
1) How are the devices in the Insteon "Types Table" updated? My prior Insteon motion sensors were "2420 Motion Sensors" and were listed in the "Types Table". My new Insteon Motion Sensors are "#2842-2, 3912, rev2.3". As Insteon adds new devices (or updates them), do we have to edit/update the "Types Table"?
When trying to "add" the new Insteon MS (#2842-2), and trying to use "AutoDetect", *Type Not Found*" is what comes back. In order to get things to work, I had to select "2420M Motion Sensor" instead (which is listed in the devices table).
2)After getting the new MS device added to PH, and then doing a PLM reset and "full add", I was able to establish links.
In the links tab of the Insteon Explorer, I have the MS in the "Insteon Device ID" box. I have one responder link (group 1, button 1) to the PLM. I also have a single controller link set up to the PLM (group 1, button 0). Everything shows "Verified".
I do see:
Incoming Insteon received on INSTEON PLM controller INSTEON-RF. From Address:[21.4E.4E] To Address:[00.00.01] Flags:[207] Cmd1:[17] Cmd2:[1]. Decode: Group Broadcast. From: DRIVEWAY MS-NEW Group: 1, On
repeated twice, followed by:
Incoming Insteon received on INSTEON PLM controller INSTEON-RF. From Address:[21.4E.4E] To Address:[11.00.01] Flags:[207] Cmd1:[6] Cmd2:[0]. Decode: Group Broadcast. From: DRIVEWAY MS-NEW Group: 1, Unmapped Command
So, to me it looks like things are linked OK.
However, when trying to bring up the MS settings by using the "Options" button, in the "Devices" tab... when I hit the retrieve button (and PH then says "Retrieve Queued, Please trigger the device to send an ON or OFF command to initiate retrieve")...I can see the MS sending commands to the PLM, but no MS settings are ever retrieved.
If I press and hold the MS SET button (to putting the MS in linking mode), and then check the box "Currently in Linking Mode" and then hit retrieve, the MS information comes back as expected.
Am I doing something wrong, or does the new version of the MS not work the same way as the 2420 version MS?
FYI - Using PH 215a (not using "b").
Edited by smarty - January 03 2015 at 18:31
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smarty
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| Posted: January 03 2015 at 20:45 | IP Logged
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See the Insteon traffic:
Incoming Insteon received on INSTEON PLM controller INSTEON-RF. From Address:[21.4E.4E] To Address:[00.00.01] Flags:[207] Cmd1:[17] Cmd2:[1]. Decode: Group Broadcast. From: DRIVEWAY MS-NEW Group: 1, On
I have no device with an address of: 00.00.01
Device 21.4E.4E is the motion sensor
Similarly:
Incoming Insteon received on INSTEON PLM controller INSTEON-RF. From Address:[21.4E.4E] To Address:[11.00.01] Flags:[207] Cmd1:[6] Cmd2:[0]. Decode: Group Broadcast. From: DRIVEWAY MS-NEW Group: 1, Unmapped Command
I have no device with an address of: 11.00.01
Maybe my links are NOT ok???
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 03 2015 at 21:25 | IP Logged
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Steve,
Your links are fine. The 00.00.01 is the group (this is group broadcast not a direct command) the command was sent to.
The unmapped command is a new group broadcast success report command that will show the proper description if you upgrade to 2.1.5b or 2.1.5c.
Not sure if there is a change in the latest motion sensors or not. The surest way of communicating with a battery powered Insteon device is to place it in linking mode. I provided an option to read the settings from some of the battery powered devices by triggering a response from the device but the timing has got to be just right (I believe its less than a second) in order for PowerHome to communicate with the device without it being in linking mode. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt (and its possible it doesnt work at all on certain devices).
The surest way to add a new device to PowerHome is via auto discovery on the "Setup" tab. Place the PLM in auto discover mode and then place your new insteon device in linking mode. This should create the device detail as well as the types. SmartHome occasionally publishes a spreadsheet with all the known device types and Ive imported this data into an internal table in PowerHome which will feed the Insteon Types tab. However, the last time they updated this file was a year ago so any newer devices won't be in it. However, doing an auto-detect of the device type should create an appropriate base entry. It likely didnt work in your case because your motion sensor may not have been in linking mode (battery devices MUST be in linking mode in order to communicate with them unless you're very lucky in catching that less than a second opening after they send a command). You can also manually add new devices to the types table. The main thing is to get the devcat and subcat columns right (auto discovery and auto detect should do this) and then set the controller and responder groups properly (if the devcat/subcat exists in the internal PH table imported from SmartHome then these entries may already be there. If not, they must be manually set as there is no way to determine them via the Insteon protocol).
Dave.
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smarty
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| Posted: January 07 2015 at 20:33 | IP Logged
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A bit of an update...
Using PH 2.1.5c
...Using the procedure described above, PH added my new MS as an 2420M motion sensor. Process worked as described. 
As for bringing up the MS settings by using the "Options" button, in the "Devices" tab... I was able to make this work, but not as described above.
With a linked motion sensor on the desk next to the PH computer....
Here is how it works with this hardware (or maybe there is a PH/Insteon timing issues with 2.1.5c):
With the MS NOT in linking mode (quick double tap of the set button takes it out of linking mode - so you don't have to wait the 4 minutes it stays in link mode), check the PH box that says "currently in link mode", then, provide motion to the MS. It will respond with three quick Insteon messages (see the above post). As soon as you see the first of the three, press the "Retrieve" button in PH, and PH will then query the MS and display its settings.
Similarly, you can send new settings to the MS the same way.
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dhoward
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| Posted: January 09 2015 at 16:06 | IP Logged
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Steve,
That way should work for you as long as you can trigger the battery device and press the retrieve button quick enough. That is exactly what PowerHome is trying to do automatically but for reason or another is failing.
I took a look at the code and basically what PowerHome is doing is waiting for a group cleanup command (to the PLM) from the device to "trigger" the attempt to communicate. Battery powered insteon devices typically send 2 to 3 group broadcasts (the messages I suspect you're seeing) followed by any group cleanup commands to linked devices (as long as another insteon command doesnt appear on the line). So in the current code, PowerHome is waiting after the 3 group broadcasts and if the group cleanup command doesnt come, won't try to read the parameters. If the motion sensor is not linked to the PLM on the group that is doing the trigger or another insteon command interrupts the group cleanup command, this won't work.
Ive gone ahead and modified the code so that PowerHome will attempt the parameter read on both a group broadcast and a group cleanup. We'll see if that makes it work properly.
Dave.
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smarty
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| Posted: January 18 2015 at 21:13 | IP Logged
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Update - POSSIBLE BUG REPORT
I have finally made some progress with my Insteon Motion Sensors.
My goal was to get my MS's linked to my PLM for all three supported groups (1-Motion, 2-Dawn/Dusk, 3-Low Battery).
1st step, add you MS to your Insteon device list...then don't forget to "clear" and then "add full" to your PLM.
My break though was concerning the linking. In the Insteon explorer screen (links tab), the MS is in the "Insteon Device ID" box. I then set up three PLM Responder groups (group1-Motion, group2-dawn/dusk, and group3-lowbattery).
!!!HERE IS THE KEY... IN THE PLM RESPONDER LINKS, THE BUTTON NUMBER MUST BE "1" FOR THE LINKS TO WORK. IF THE BUTTON NUMBER IS "0", GROUPS 2 AND 3 WILL NOT WORK (GROUP 1 WILL STILL WORK) - POSSIBLE PH BUG?.
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PowerHome Messageboard : PowerHome Hardware
Topic: Insteon Motion Sensor (SH 2420M)
