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crisx
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| Posted: October 03 2006 at 18:17 | IP Logged
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Was playing around with the new Insteon 'Reports' tab and noticed one of my switches had 100% NAK signals. I had manually entered the device because it controls a whole house fan that I don't use this time of year and probably won't use until next summer. I automatically discovered the switch and it turns out that Smarthome put the wrong device ID sticker on the switch! The report saved me lots of troubleshooting time!
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 03 2006 at 21:30 | IP Logged
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Cris,
Thats great! Ive had it help me spot some deficiencies that I was unaware of as well. Ive got a ControLinc that is at the far corner of the house with less than desireable statistics and was able to discover a failed switch that I don't use very often.
I like the "Overall COMM" report the best because it allows me to see on a single page the relationship of Event03's to NAKS. Very helpful in seeing where I may need to add some SignaLincs or perhaps some more Insteon devices to beef the signal.
Dave.
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Dracol1ch
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| Posted: October 05 2006 at 14:18 | IP Logged
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For those of use who don't understand what that relationship means is there some place I can get crash course? I gather from the reports that 03s are bad but I've no idea why or how I might correct it or even what an 'acceptable' number might be.
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cmctague
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| Posted: October 06 2006 at 10:51 | IP Logged
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crisx wrote:
| I automatically discovered the switch and it turns out that Smarthome put the wrong device ID sticker on the switch! The report saved me lots of troubleshooting time! |
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Thanks for the auto-discover tip. I just ran across a togglelinc V2 with the wrong label too. I was wondering why I could link it manually to my keypad but PowerHome couldn't talk to it. Dave, I guess this answers my ToggleLinc problems I emailed you with.
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 06 2006 at 18:50 | IP Logged
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Draco,
Basically the COMM parameters track each attempt made by PowerHome (and the PLC) to communicate with a specific device. An ACK is an acknowledge to a command and is a good thing. A NAK is a non-acknowledge and is a bad thing. In a perfect Insteon world, every communication attempt would be followed by an ACK that the command was successful. An Event03 has to do with the number of times a message has to hopped (repeated) until an ACK or NAK is received. The more Event03's that are received, the more the message had to be hopped (and took longer to get there) and generally the less reliable your communications would be to that device. The fewer Event03's you have, the more reliable your communication is (more direct). The Insteon protocol has this hopping built in and it's intended to help get a message further and make it more reliable. However, the greater you have to repeat a message to get it from point A to point B, the likelihood that the message could be corrupt or not get to the destination goes up. So fewer Event03's are better. More are not necessarily bad unless the larger Event03 counts are also accompanied by greater NAK counts. This is why I like the "Overall COMM" report because it shows all 3.
If you have short Event03's, but alot of NAKS, it's possible that the destination device is within range but is losing communication due to noise or similar (close to a computer power supply, etc). If you've got alot of NAK's and high Event03's, then you're probably just having range limitations and more SignaLincs (or rearranging existing ones) could help compensate for this.
All in all, it's definately not cut and dried and problems could be the result of anything. If nothing else though, the reports should help you be aware of problems if they exist. Solving them though, is a different matter entirely.
Concerning an acceptable number of Event03's, I would expect 2 and below to be about average. I don't become concerned myself unless that number goes above 3 (or I also have alot of NAK's which is always a bad thing).
Anyways, I hope this helps shed a little light on a complex subject  .
Dave.
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 06 2006 at 18:56 | IP Logged
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Quote:
Thanks for the auto-discover tip. I just ran across a togglelinc V2 with the wrong label too. I was wondering why I could link it manually to my keypad but PowerHome couldn't talk to it. Dave, I guess this answers my ToggleLinc problems I emailed you with. |
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That's awesome !! At least the part about it not being a PowerHome problem. I was really worried about this thinking that something internally was different within the ToggleLinc and the newer switches coming out.
However, it's not the first time Ive heard of this. Another problem to be aware of is getting a switch with an address that matches an already existing switch. I know of one instance where this has already happened. There's nothing you can do in this situation except send the switch back and request a different one since you cant have two of the same address in the same network.
Good news though since it's fixed and not something that I have to work on  .
Dave.
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Dracol1ch
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| Posted: October 07 2006 at 11:04 | IP Logged
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Awesome! Thanks for the information Dave. I feel like I finally have some idea about what's going on with my network and why. Truely understanding Insteon and how it operates hasn't been an easy road and I feel like I'm right on the cusp now. I know Smarthome is trying to make the documentation they provide 'consumer oriented' and that there is probably better data in the dev packs but I really wish there was a more engineer oriented documentation in between.
As to the mislabeling of Insteon products, it is definitely good information to have. I hope it's not a rampant problem as I'm about to install 8 InlineLincs and mislabeling on those could be disasterous.
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:43 | IP Logged
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Draco,
Glad to be able to help. Definately a disaterous problem to have mis-labeled InlineLincs. I don't think it's rampant, but from what I hear, more frequent than it should be.
The lack of documentation is a big issue for developers as well. I would say that there is even less since the last updated Developers reference is dated October 2005. Yep, 1 year ago. Everything we learn is either through trial and error or what has been posted by others. It's definately tough out there right now.
Dave.
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crisx
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| Posted: October 10 2006 at 16:58 | IP Logged
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I just found ANOTHER mislabeled swith! I've had a flaky icon relay in an outbuilding. I replaced it, manually entered the Insteon address in powerhome, then checked the reports feature an hour later - No communication to the new device. So I autodiscovered it and the true address showed up.
I happened to have a few other cover plates off around the house, so I compared those addresses to those in PowerHome and found 1 more mislabeled switch.
At this point it is more of an inconvenience, but if at some point in the future references to Smarthome's Insteon master database become necessary, they may be somewhat inaccurate.
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 12 2006 at 13:10 | IP Logged
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Cris,
WOW, this is looking to be more widespread than originally thought. That's two for you now.
Anyways, thanks for reporting this. It may help others who seem to have inexplicable problems where PowerHome (or other software) cant talk to a certain device.
Dave.
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Topic: Saved by the new reports feature
