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mcfly
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| Posted: June 19 2006 at 16:26 | IP Logged
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I am a longtime X10 user for home automation. I have a reasonably stable & reliable X10 setup, with about 25 devices, a phase-coupler, and a CM11A controlled using a homegrown web app. I'm very familiar with all the idiosyncracies of X10, but my setup *mostly* works, & is adequate for lighting etc.
I've been watching the progress of Insteon, & now that it's been out for a while the view seems to be that reliability is better than X10. With its backwards compatibility with X10, it seems to be a perfect upgrade for me - I plan to keep most of my existing setup, but replace a few problematic X10 modules with (hopefully more reliable) Insteon ones. So I bought an Insteon starter kit from SmartHome (2 SignalLincs, 2 LampLincs, a tabletop controller) and a PowerLinc V2 Serial.
Software for Insteon is not widespread at the moment, but I found the excellent PowerHome application and decided to give it a try. Downloaded and installed version 1.03.4.7 (with patch) without incident. Started by setting it up with an extra CM11A controller I have. All works fine - the software can control all my X10 stuff with no problems.
Then, I went to try the Insteon Powerlinc controller. Set it all up according to the instructions, which seemed to go well. However, from there, I can get no further. Although logs etc seem to indicate that things are happening, it seems as if no communication actually goes in or out of the Powerlinc.
When I try to use it to control X10 devices, the logs indicate that the commands are sent, but none of the devices will turn on/off, and my other CM11A controller doesn't see any X10 traffic. When I issue commands from my CM11A, the Powerlinc doesn't "see" them either.
Auto-discovery of Insteon devices did not work at all. I tried to manually enter Insteon devices, which I was able to do, but they won't turn on/off either when trying to control them through PowerHome.
I know that the Insteon devices work OK, because I can control them with the tabletop controller. The signal bridges are correctly set up also, on different phases.
The SDM log contains the following, which would seem to indicate that PowerHome is communicating with the PowerLinc, although there are send failures and NAKs that I am thinking are likely the source of my problems:
ui:getplcstatus
PLC:getPLCstatus=beginlist
port=COM1
connected=True
firmware=2.12
id=01.82.47
devicetype=InsteonPLC-COM
lastErrorMsg=#0:
endlist
downloadTimer started
timerActivate enabled
SDM:DM=active,1.01.26.163,6/19/2006 3:42:46 PM,responded,01.82.47,2.12
ui:srq:srir=00 00 00 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
si:01 82 47 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:srq:SRIR=send failed
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=05
6/19/2006 3:43:00 PM:nakmsg
ui:srq:srir=00 00 00 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
si:01 82 47 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:srq:SRIR=send failed
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=05
6/19/2006 3:43:15 PM:nakmsg
ui:srq:srir=00 00 00 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
si:01 82 47 04 A1 9E 0F 19 00
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:srq:SRIR=send failed
PLC:eventraw=03
PLC:eventraw=05
6/19/2006 3:43:30 PM:nakmsg
Any ideas on where to go from here in troubleshooting??
Thanks in advance.
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 20 2006 at 00:08 | IP Logged
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Mcfly,
Doesnt sound good. The first thing I want to comment on is the supposed X10 backwards compatibility. Although it is touted as such, it appears that most users will eventually have problems in a "mixed" environment. It seems that once Insteon reaches a particular "saturation" level, X10 communications goes out the door.
That being said and looking at your eventlog, there definately appears to be some communication issues. From what I can see, you appear to have a serial PLC (2414s) hooked up to COM1. It's ID is 01.82.47. You appear to have manually defined a single Insteon device with address 04.A1.9E. I see 3 status request commands going to it and they all failed.
You also indicate that the ControLinc is able to control the LampLinc so there would appear to not be a communication issue. However, auto discovery is not working (almost always a result of some comm problem). I know it sounds dumb, but since you manually entered the address, I would doublecheck to rule out any mistyping.
I didnt see any X10 commands being sent in the log you posted above, but something is not right. The first thing I would look at is where the PLC is plugged into. Is it plugged in a powerstrip that the computer or CM11A is plugged into? If so, I would definately move it. Numerous reports of the PLC being unable to communicate when plugged into clse proximity to either of these devices.
Other than that...nothing comes off the top of my head at the moment. It may help if you emailed me your PowerHome database just so I can make sure there are no obvious problems.
Let me know and Im sure we'll get it working.
Dave.
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WayneW
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| Posted: June 21 2006 at 07:59 | IP Logged
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dhoward wrote:
| You appear to have manually defined a single Insteon device with address 04.A1.9E. |
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How can you tell that it was manually defined from the log? (just curious)
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mcfly
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| Posted: June 22 2006 at 12:26 | IP Logged
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Dave, thanks for the reply. I've been out of town for a couple of days, and last night fired up PowerHome again, intending to get you a log snippet of X10 commands. To my surprise, things appeared to be working fine - X10 commands actually controlled my X10 devices, and Insteon commands worked as well. I could see traffic of both types on the powerline, & could verify using my CM11A that all were occurring as expected. Maybe I should go away more often.
However, woke up this morning & it had stopped working again. As an experienced X10 user, whenever things stop working properly I normally suspect that somebody's plugged something new in somewhere & that's what's messing it up. However I am quite certain that nothing like that happened while I was asleep. From the logs I can see that the Insteon ack/nak traffic was all acks before 4am and all naks after. Reinitializing PowerHome got me going again. My homegrown X10 app does a re-init at 4AM so I am suspecting some sort of negative interaction with my CM11A, but now that I've got something going with PowerHome I will unplug that & see what happens.
BTW, I am starting to get a couple of layers down into PowerHome - very powerful application, I think I'm going to really like it.
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mcfly
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 07:27 | IP Logged
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OK, this morning all the troubles are back. Last night all macros executed fine, but this morning's sunrise batch did not. Individual X10 and Insteon commands show in the Event Log as being sent properly, but devices do not respond. I also tried re-initializing PH & I get the following: "The Insteon PLC MAIN is not responding. Commands will not be sent.Attempting to Restart."
My CM11A has been unplugged since yesterday so there is no possible conflict with that. I am starting to think I may have a bad PLC. Any way I can troubleshoot that any further?
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mcfly
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 07:37 | IP Logged
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so I should have run ALL the tests before my last post.... Re-initializing PH did not work, but restarting it did. PLC now responding to commands. I am assuming/hoping i shouldn't have to restart daily?
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mustangcoupe
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 20:07 | IP Logged
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Mcfly, Make sure you have the latest SDM. link and intructions can be found HERE
http://www.power-home.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=745&PN=2
__________________
Todd Hannemann
HA newbie 
 PowerHome - UPB - ELK
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:33 | IP Logged
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Wayne,
I couldnt tell from the log...I was relying upon the statement that autodiscovery would not work at all  .
Heh, thought I had some secret, eh?
Dave.
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:41 | IP Logged
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Mcfly,
After reading your posts, I think you're most likely suffering from the SDM reliability. As Todd suggested, the latest SDM is apparently giving good results and is much more stable than the version that is default installed with PowerHome. The default version seems to provide about 2 days before needing to be restarted.
The difference in reintializing PowerHome and restarting PowerHome is that sometimes reintializing will not restart the SDM (because the SDM does not always shutdown immediately and PH may reinit before the SDM shuts down). A PowerHome restart will almost always make the SDM restart as well. You can verify that it's the SDM that is causing the problem by just right-clicking it's icon in the system tray and shutting it down. PowerHome will automatically restart it when it sends a command and this has almost always fixed it except in the cases where the PLC itself is hung and needs to be unplugged.
Sooo, it's good that you don't have a bad PLC and that when it's not hung, it all appears to work. Just load up the latest SDM and it should increase the reliability dramatically.
Let me know how it goes,
Dave.
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mcfly
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| Posted: June 24 2006 at 05:10 | IP Logged
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Thanks Todd and Dave - I upgraded the SDM and have gotten through one night with no restarts needed & all devices being controlled properly. Will keep an eye on it for a few days to be sure but hopefully this is the fix!
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dhoward
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| Posted: June 27 2006 at 23:36 | IP Logged
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Mcfly,
Just checking to see how it's going. Is the new SDM proving to be anymore stable?
Dave.
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mcfly
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| Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:24 | IP Logged
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Hi Dave - working perfectly so far. X10 and Insteon co-existing quite nicely. Insteon is great - no delay, positive feedback, etc. Awesome.
Thanks to you for your diligent support as well. I'll take care of my purchase of the full PowerHome license now that I'm thinking about it...
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Deano
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| Posted: March 09 2007 at 13:38 | IP Logged
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Insteon, insteon, insteon, dosen't anybody x10 anymore
What is the current status of Insteon X10 compatibility?
Should I invest in a 2414U Powerlinc V2 controller and retire my CM11A?
My current system has no 2-way x10 and all my inputs are RF throuth W800RF32 motion, keychain,stick-a switch etc.
I'd like to leave the curent system as is and begin to migrate by switching over a few X10 switches & modules at a time, then as budget permits, replace the X10 mods with Insteon.
I don't have any esoteric output stuff; just light switches, lamp modules, appliance mods and a couple of universals for my garage doors.
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dhoward
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| Posted: March 09 2007 at 18:16 | IP Logged
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Deano,
I definately wouldnt replace your CM11A with a 2414U. Maybe run them both together (PowerHome has no problem with this), but I wouldnt retire the CM11A in favor of the 2414U. Numerous users have reported that the 2414U is just a little weak on X10 signals.
As you start adding Insteon, some people report that their X10 signal suddenly stops working after reaching a certain Insteon saturation level. Others seem to have no problem. Just something to keep in mind.
Ive been at the EHX show the past couple of days and I think the next lighting protocol is going to be UPB. Just something you may want to possibly consider as well.
Dave.
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Topic: Trying to get started with Insteon...
