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DeanC
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 02:24 | IP Logged
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Hi Guys,
I running PH 2.1b on Win 7 64 bit using a PLM and all X10 modules and have had no problems for a long time. I just added two access points (properly installed), a switchlink relay, an icon lamp dimmer, and an Insteon motion detector. When I create a device for either the switchlink or lamp dimmer in PH, several of my X10 modules turn on and off randomly. Deleting the Insteon device from PH stops the random operation. Interestingly, none of the random operations show in the log. I've cleared and recreated all links in both the PLM and PH, used the db repair utility, and tried creating links different ways (Auto Discovery, manual linking). Every time I create an Insteon device in PH the problem occurs. I would appreciate any help
Thanks,
Dean
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BeachBum
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 08:00 | IP Logged
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There are a couple of things to look at. Try a factory reset to all the Insteon devices. That would eliminate any X10 assignments that might have been added. The other could be crosstalk for no better explanation. Try changing your base (house) codes and see if that helps. Thirdly it could be noise and if you’ve had X10 for a while you know what that will do. Insteon linking would have nothing to do with X10. I doubt you have a PH or db problem. X10 switches because it thinks whatever it hears is me. It’s either noise or someone is sending the code. The problem we usually here is when you start adding Insteon devices the X10 signal starts to attenuate and the modules stop working.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 14:22 | IP Logged
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Thanks Pete. It is definately a PH issue. The Insteon devices can remain connected and the links to the PLM can stay intact without causing problems. The only time problems occur is after I create an Insteon device in PH. It is very consistant - create an Insteon device and X10 has problems - delete Insteon device and X10 behaves properly.
In my original post I forgot to mention that I get a database error when leaving Insteon Explorer. Hmm, I just tried recreating the error so I could be more specific and was unable to do so. I also noticed that after creating an Insteon device this morning (using one of the same devices I used before) that the X10 problem isn't happening. Also when the problem was occurring, the raw Insteon log was almost continously scrolling with messages (sorry I can't be more specific, it was late at night) and it's not doing so now. Hmmm, so much for consistant!  I'll continue to investigate. Thanks!
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grif091
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 14:57 | IP Logged
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Using Powerhome Explorer, under Setup | Controllers | Settings (for PLM); specify a fully qualified path for the Insteon Raw Log file (C:\temp\phlog.txt for example). Then Reinit to activate the definition. If/when the Insteon Raw Log might be useful, check Echo Raw Log to File. This will cause PH2 to write the Insteon Raw Log to the file specified under Settings.
Note that when a device is added to PH2, and Enable Pending and Status Scan is checked, the device link database is retrieved. This could be the Insteon activity seen in the Insteon Raw Log window. Once the database is retrieved it is not retrieved again unless it changes. Sounds like the X10 devices are reacting to the Insteon traffic. There is nothing inherent in PH2 that will activate X10 devices. Macros, Timed Events of course, but these are user defined. Most X10 devices will not even provide status so there is no reason for PH2 to try to access X10 devices.
An Insteon Raw Log file will go a long way in determining what is happening. Specific X10 traffic will be in the trace.
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Lee G
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 15:53 | IP Logged
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Thanks Lee, I'll do that. The bits I do remember from the raw Insteon log were messages from an Insteon device to the PLM "peeking" addresses and setting msb (Most Significant Bit, I believe). Again, I saw no X10 activity in the regular log but can't be sure about the raw log. Also besides the random X10 activity, sometimes manually toggling or dimming an Insteon device would cause an X10 device to react instead of the Insteon device and vice-versa. Very strange.
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grif091
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| Posted: June 20 2011 at 16:32 | IP Logged
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The Set MSB (0x28), Peek (0x2B) command sequence is reading one byte of device memory. The Set MSB (Set Most Significant Byte) establishes the high order memory address byte. The Peek establishes the lower order memory address byte and returns one byte of memory. Each link record is 8 bytes long so it can take hundreds of commands to read in a link database. Plus configuration data is retrieved from some devices.
Would not expect to see any actual X10 commands being issued as part of adding an Insteon device. Insteon devices can have an X10 address assigned which PH2 will retrieve but that is just a piece of raw data which would not trigger an X10 device.
The following trace is what X10 traffic looks like. The first 4 lines are X10 messages received from an X10 Maxi Controller. The rest are X10 commands PH2 issued when I exercised X10 devices through the Device Status function.
2011-06-20 16:25:32.468 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10RAW=62 00
2011-06-20 16:25:33.953 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10RAW=62 80
2011-06-20 16:25:35.671 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10RAW=62 00
2011-06-20 16:25:37.343 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEX10RAW=63 80
2011-06-20 16:26:07.078 TX &nbs p; 02 63 A6 00
2011-06-20 16:26:07.250 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=A6 00 06
2011-06-20 16:26:08.093 TX &nbs p; 02 63 A2 80
2011-06-20 16:26:08.265 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=A2 80 06
2011-06-20 16:26:11.265 TX &nbs p; 02 63 A6 00
2011-06-20 16:26:11.453 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=A6 00 06
2011-06-20 16:26:12.375 TX &nbs p; 02 63 A3 80
2011-06-20 16:26:12.531 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=A3 80 06
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 01:27 | IP Logged
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Unfortunately, the problem is back. However, it looks as if I turn off Status Scan to stop polling, the problem goes away. Below is a portion of the raw Insteon log. My devices are:
Insteon Devices
Motion Detector --------14.33.C6
2114U PLM---------------18.B9.DF
2476S SwitchLink Relay--0F.CD.2D
2856D2 Icon Lamp Dimmer-13.71.EC
X10 Devices
LM465 Plugin Lamp Module M1
LM465 Plugin Lamp Module M2
Leviton 6381 In Wall Inductive Dimmer Switch M11
Plus many others that don't seem to be affected.
Log:
2011-06-23 21:09:55.306 TX &nbs p; 02 63 0E 00
2011-06-23 21:09:55.353 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=0E 00 06
2011-06-23 21:09:56.211 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:09:56.242 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:09:57.147 TX &nbs p; 02 63 06 00
2011-06-23 21:09:57.163 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=06 00 06
2011-06-23 21:09:58.021 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:09:58.052 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:09:58.957 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:09:59.003 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:09:59.362 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 27 07 FF
2011-06-23 21:09:59.393 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:09:59.425 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:09:59.690 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 21 28 00
2011-06-23 21:09:59.737 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:09:59.768 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:10:00.392 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1F AD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:10:00.423 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:10:00.454 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:10:00.485 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:10:01.515 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 27 2B 00
2011-06-23 21:10:08.051 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 00 00 01 CB 11 01
2011-06-23 21:10:08.114 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:10:08.161 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-23 21:10:08.535 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 41 11 01
2011-06-23 21:10:12.185 RX &nbs p; INSTEON TIMEOUT=0F CD 2D
2011-06-23 21:10:13.137 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:10:13.168 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-23 21:10:13.511 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 27 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:10:13.574 TX &nbs p; 02 63 46 00
2011-06-23 21:10:13.605 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=46 00 06
2011-06-23 21:10:14.463 TX &nbs p; 02 63 42 80
2011-06-23 21:10:14.479 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=42 80 06
2011-06-23 21:10:31.607 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:10:31.654 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:10:31.935 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 2B 0A CC
2011-06-23 21:10:31.982 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:10:32.029 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:10:32.309 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 28 00
2011-06-23 21:10:32.356 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 22
2011-06-23 21:10:32.387 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 22 06
2011-06-23 21:10:32.590 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B A8
2011-06-23 21:10:32.637 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 32
2011-06-23 21:10:32.668 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 32 06
2011-06-23 21:10:32.871 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B FE
2011-06-23 21:10:32.918 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 21
2011-06-23 21:10:32.965 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 21 06
2011-06-23 21:10:33.152 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 1C
2011-06-23 21:10:33.199 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:10:33.230 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:10:33.433 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:10:33.464 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:10:33.511 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:10:33.713 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 00
2011-06-23 21:10:33.854 TX &nbs p; 02 63 0E 00
2011-06-23 21:10:33.916 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=0E 00 06
2011-06-23 21:10:34.774 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:10:34.821 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:10:35.726 TX &nbs p; 02 63 06 00
2011-06-23 21:10:35.757 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=06 00 06
2011-06-23 21:10:36.615 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:10:36.646 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:10:37.769 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 00 00 01 CB 13 01
2011-06-23 21:10:38.144 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 00 00 01 C3 13 01
2011-06-23 21:10:38.269 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 41 13 01
2011-06-23 21:11:03.790 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:11:03.837 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:04.243 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 23 07 FF
2011-06-23 21:11:04.258 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:11:04.305 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:04.867 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 28 00
2011-06-23 21:11:04.882 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:11:04.914 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:11:05.538 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:11:05.553 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:11:05.600 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:11:06.208 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 00
2011-06-23 21:11:36.270 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:11:36.316 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:36.613 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 2B 0A CC
2011-06-23 21:11:36.628 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:11:36.675 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:36.956 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 28 00
2011-06-23 21:11:36.972 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 22
2011-06-23 21:11:37.003 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 22 06
2011-06-23 21:11:37.206 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B A8
2011-06-23 21:11:37.221 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 32
2011-06-23 21:11:37.268 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 32 06
2011-06-23 21:11:37.455 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B FE
2011-06-23 21:11:37.471 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 21
2011-06-23 21:11:37.518 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 21 06
2011-06-23 21:11:37.705 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 1C
2011-06-23 21:11:37.720 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:11:37.752 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:11:37.970 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:11:37.986 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:11:38.032 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:11:38.220 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 00
2011-06-23 21:11:50.232 TX &nbs p; 02 63 0E 00
2011-06-23 21:11:50.278 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=0E 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:51.136 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:11:51.168 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:11:52.072 TX &nbs p; 02 63 06 00
2011-06-23 21:11:52.104 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=06 00 06
2011-06-23 21:11:52.962 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:11:52.993 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:12:08.265 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:12:08.312 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:08.702 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 23 07 FF
2011-06-23 21:12:08.718 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:12:08.749 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:09.373 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 28 00
2011-06-23 21:12:09.388 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:12:09.420 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:12:10.044 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:12:10.059 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:12:10.090 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:12:10.699 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 22 2B 00
2011-06-23 21:12:21.884 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 00 00 01 CB 11 01
2011-06-23 21:12:21.946 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:12:21.993 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-23 21:12:22.321 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 41 11 01
2011-06-23 21:12:26.018 RX &nbs p; INSTEON TIMEOUT=0F CD 2D
2011-06-23 21:12:26.970 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:12:27.001 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-23 21:12:27.406 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 27 11 FF
2011-06-23 21:12:27.469 TX &nbs p; 02 63 46 00
2011-06-23 21:12:27.500 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=46 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:28.358 TX &nbs p; 02 63 42 80
2011-06-23 21:12:28.389 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=42 80 06
2011-06-23 21:12:40.760 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 0F 19 00
2011-06-23 21:12:40.807 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 0F 19 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:41.103 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 2B 0A CC
2011-06-23 21:12:41.150 TX &nbs p; 02 63 0E 00
2011-06-23 21:12:41.181 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=0E 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:42.039 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:12:42.055 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:12:42.944 TX &nbs p; 02 63 06 00
2011-06-23 21:12:42.975 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=06 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:43.849 TX &nbs p; 02 63 03 80
2011-06-23 21:12:43.880 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=03 80 06
2011-06-23 21:12:44.769 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 28 00
2011-06-23 21:12:44.816 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 28 00 06
2011-06-23 21:12:45.003 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 28 00
2011-06-23 21:12:45.050 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 22
2011-06-23 21:12:45.081 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 22 06
2011-06-23 21:12:45.269 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B A8
2011-06-23 21:12:45.315 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 32
2011-06-23 21:12:45.347 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 32 06
2011-06-23 21:12:45.565 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B FE
2011-06-23 21:12:45.612 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 21
2011-06-23 21:12:45.643 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 21 06
2011-06-23 21:12:45.846 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 1C
2011-06-23 21:12:45.893 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 30
2011-06-23 21:12:45.924 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 30 06
2011-06-23 21:12:46.127 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 20
2011-06-23 21:12:46.173 TX &nbs p; 02 62 13 71 EC 05 2B 31
2011-06-23 21:12:46.220 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 13 71 EC 05 2B 31 06
2011-06-23 21:12:46.439 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=13 71 EC 18 B9 DF 21 2B 00
The X10 OFF commands were the only ones intentionally sent. All others were spontaneously generated.
Would there be a downside to leaving Status Scan unchecked?
Thanks,
Dean
PS Polling was active during the time of the log above.
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 02:25 | IP Logged
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Well, it turns out that turning off polling greatly diminishes the problem, but doesn't completely solve it. Below is another, much shorter, log segment that was saved during a trigger-macro event that does not involve any X10 devices, only insteon. The motion detector triggers a macro, if it is dark, that turns on the SwitchLink Relay. I use a macro because I want to add more devices to be turned on later.
2011-06-24 00:14:23.393 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 00 00 01 CB 11 01
2011-06-24 00:14:23.490 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-24 00:14:23.504 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-24 00:14:23.890 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONEXT=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 31 11 3E B6 D0 7D E8 88 AC 0F F9 43 9C F2 22 B0 1F
2011-06-24 00:14:23.907 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 41 11 01
2011-06-24 00:14:24.288 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 33 C6 18 B9 DF 42 11 01
2011-06-24 00:14:28.492 TX &nbs p; 02 62 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF
2011-06-24 00:14:28.506 RX &nbs p; SENTINSTEON=18 B9 DF 0F CD 2D 0F 11 FF 06
2011-06-24 00:14:30.679 RX &nbs p; RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0F CD 2D 18 B9 DF 23 11 FF
2011-06-24 00:14:30.765 TX &nbs p; 02 63 46 00
2011-06-24 00:14:30.790 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=46 00 06
2011-06-24 00:14:31.614 TX &nbs p; 02 63 42 80
2011-06-24 00:14:31.638 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=42 80 06
There are X10 commands being sent that shouldn't be. Also the device status window does NOT get updated by these sent commands. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Dean
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grif091
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In both posts there is this sequence ...
Inbound On from 14.33.C6
Outbound On to 18.B9.DF
Outbound On to 0F.CD.2D
Outbound On to X10 O1
Something that is triggered by the On from 14.33.C6 is issuing three outbound On commands. Two to Insteon devices and 1 to an X10 device. With this sequence appearing in both traces it is not a random event. Perhaps there is a problem with a Macro that is run as a result of the trigger event.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 09:03 | IP Logged
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You initially said that X10 modules were randomly coming on and off when creating Insteon devices. If I’m correct adding devices will also cause scans to take place. I have a problem with some X10 devices having a similar problem when this occurs. It is what I call blinking. They will flash to bright if already on. It is caused by some Insteon transmission activity and is more pronounce when scanning. It only occurs on my Leviton dimmers. Just adding a little tidbit to the problem. Lee is right on with his theory. I only have one question. Is the trace showing all the X10s that came on or are there still some coming on randomly that are not in the trace?
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 14:22 | IP Logged
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Thanks Guys!
Lee, The sequence you found makes some sense, kinda. The first line would be the message from the motion detector that motion has occured. The second line is the PLM but I would think it should be issuing commands to the third line which is the SwitchLink relay controlling the porch lights. It seems strange that there is an on command being issued to the PLM after the motion detector sends it's on command representing motion. The fourth line is an X10 appliance module that is part of the macro that turns on low voltage yard lights. However that line was marked skip in the macro at the time of both traces. This trigger and macro has worked properly for years using an X10 motion detector and the SwitchLink Relay in X10 mode. All I did was substitute the Insteon Motion Detector for the X10, factory reset the SwtichLink and link it to the PLM and substitute it for it's previous X10 address. What concerns me is the lack of X10 commands in the second trace for the X10 devices that were affected - M1, M2, & M11. M1 and M2 turned on at exactly the time of the X10 command in the second trace.
BeachBum, I think I probably answered your question above, but yes it seems, at least in the second trace, that the two lights I saw come on during that trace are not in the trace. For the first trace, I don't remember exactly what happened when, and while I can figure out the Insteon devices in the trace, I don't know how to read the X10 commands so I don't know what X10 devices are in the traces.
Thanks to both of you for your help!
Dean
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BeachBum
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 15:19 | IP Logged
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In the 2nd trace I see the dimmer coming in then M2, M11 and M1 coming on starting at 21:12:40. In the last trace I don’t see that sequence.
EDIT: Insteon Dimmer
Edited by BeachBum - June 24 2011 at 15:23
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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BeachBum
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A couple of thoughts… Are you using TRIGDISABLE? If not I would use it in the Boolean of the Motion Trigger. Also have you tried firing the macro manually to see if the same problem exist?
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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Sorry, you are absolutely right. The 18.B9.DF is the “from address” which would be the PLM. I should have learned by now not to write a post when I wake up.
An X10 command consists of two X10 messages. The first message identifies the House/Unit number. The second message identifies the House/Command. Using the excerpt from one of the traces the 02 63 46 00 is the first of the two X10 messages. The 02 63 is the command sequence to the PLM Serial interface to send an X10 message. The 46 is the House/Unit, the 00 indicates this is a House/Unit message. The 02 63 42 80 is the second X10 message. Again, the 02 63 is the PLM command to send an X10 message. The 42 is the House/Command with the 80 indicating this is a House/Command message.
2011-06-24 00:14:30.765 TX &nbs p; 02 63 46 00
2011-06-24 00:14:30.790 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=46 00 06
2011-06-24 00:14:31.614 TX &nbs p; 02 63 42 80
2011-06-24 00:14:31.638 RX &nbs p; SENTX10=42 80 06
There are conversion charts all over the internet. Search for X10 commands and many will be found.
The 46 00 (House/Unit) breaks down as 4 = House code “O”, the 6 = Unit code “1”.
The 42 80 (House/Command) breaks down as 4 = House code “O”, the 2 = Command “On”.
Each 4 bit number (4,6,2) is located in the left column of the X10 conversion chart. There are three columns to the right, being House, Unit, X10 Command respectively. A “4” is House code “O”, a “4” is Unit code 15, a “4” X10 command is Dim. A “4” means different things depending on whether it is a House code, a Unit code or an X10 command. It is a little messy the first few you convert.
As far as the Skip in the Macro, perhaps a SAVE PF5 was not done after checking Skip. Looks like it is on but is not in effect until Save is done.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: June 24 2011 at 16:10 | IP Logged
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To add to that Lee is if you address HC/UC with different addresses each time then when you send the cmd code all units you addressed will respond but I did not see that in the log.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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Pete makes an excellent point regarding Trigger Disable. If that does not resolve the symptoms I suggest as a temporary diagnostic change add a Wait of 2 seconds to the Macro before any outbound commands are issued. The Motion Sensor (and other RF only devices) is a little different than other Insteon devices. It issues multiple (3) Group Broadcast messages and 1 Group Cleanup message. As these extra message come asynchronous to the outbound messages generated from the Macro they may overlap. Insteon devices do not step on each other’s powerline messages but since they are coming from different locations on the powerline it is possible the powerline traffic is causing problems for the X10 devices. The Insteon devices will handle the situation but the old X10 may well not.
If the Trigger Disable does not resolve the problem and the Wait does the Wait time can be reduced until symptoms return. That way there will be a minimum latency.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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Food for thought:
I use delays instead of waits between X10 ONs and DIMS or BRIGHTs. My reason behind that is if I lose control it may take forever for those lights to complete their cycle. The WAIT allows others to enter into the mix whereas DELAY does not allow interruption of the execution. But then Lee brings up a very interesting scenario. IF an Insteon device is trying to respond the Wait will allow the interrupt and the delay will not. The reason for either in the first place is because of the amount of time it takes to step up or down. Sometimes I find the PLM/PLC does not have the patience to wait for the dim or bright o finish. Insteon does not have that problem. So I group my X10 stuff together and don’t intermix with my Insteon. If that makes any sense.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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DeanC
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| Posted: June 26 2011 at 00:06 | IP Logged
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I tried TRIGDISABLE and thought it had solved the issue because "traffic" dropped almost to nothing and the spurious X10 commands seem to happen more when there's a lot of traffic. Unfortunately, later in the day M2 turned on when it shouldn't have. It does seem like we're moving in the right direction though.
Pete, I really like the idea of manually firing the macro and feel like an idiot for not thinking of it myself. I left town this morning and will be gone for a little over a week, so while I can RDP in via VPN (don't you just love those TLA's - Three Letter Acronyms?), I can't physically see lights go on, off, etc. In other words, I'll have to resume this gremlin hunt when I get back. It really does make sense to not mix Insteon and X10 and would love to simply replace all the X10 with Insteon, but my wallet quivers with fear whenever that thought strikes.
Thanks to both of you for sharing your extensive knowledge and I'll try the wait, or delay, when I get back and then report on it.
Dean
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BeachBum
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I think we at IBM started the TLAs back in the MVS, TOS, and DOS days. When we ran out of TLAs we started FLAs like QTAM, VTAM and BTAM. Have a safe trip. Meanwhile I’ll hang out at the beach in PNS FLA until you get back. 
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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DeanC
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| Posted: August 15 2011 at 15:07 | IP Logged
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Lee and Pete,
Thank you both for your willingness to help and to share your knowledge and experience! I travel for my job so much that troubleshooting this issue fell lower and lower on the list of priorites for my time when I am home that I finally just decided to solve the problem by replacing the troublesome x-10 modules with Insteon modules. Sure enough, that solved the issues. A curious thing of note is that I set up triggers in PH such that incoming on or off commands on the old x-10 addresses would get translated to Insteon commands for the new modules. The purpose is to allow the existing x-10 controllers scattered around the house to control the lights without those modules being susceptable to unwanted x-10 commands. I really expected the problems to continue since PH would "translate" x-10 commands on those addresses to Insteon. It hasn't happened. The operation of the new Insteon modules have been rock solid without a single uncommanded on or off. This tells me that PH is not seeing any x-10 commands except those issued deliberately. In turn that strongly supports my original thoughts that the unwanted x-10 commands were being issued by PH. I would love to be able to continue troubleshooting the original problem, but I don't have the time or, now that for practical purposes the problem has been solved, the need except for the sake of curiosity. Thanks again to both of you for the use of your time and knowledge on my behalf!
Dean
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Topic: Insteon messes with X10 in PH
