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cruelkix
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 15:06 | IP Logged
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I am getting some really poor reliability from my commands. I would say about 50% of my commands dont go through. It gets worse when I use Groups commands as opposed to calling out commands to single switches. Is there any easy fix for this? Could the fact that my PLC is in the basement have an effect on this? I've tried moving my Couplers around and it hasnt really changed anything. Any ideas are appreciated.
Thanks,
Craig
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 15:50 | IP Logged
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I have a noisy environment and some of my Group commands sometimes don’t work to certain areas. Like you I use commands to the devices in those particular groups. I have tried the Access Point relocations and that didn’t help either. You could post a log of the problem and some of us could take a look at it.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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cruelkix
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 15:55 | IP Logged
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BeachBum wrote:
| I have a noisy environment and some of my Group commands sometimes don’t work to certain areas. Like you I use commands to the devices in those particular groups. I have tried the Access Point relocations and that didn’t help either. You could post a log of the problem and some of us could take a look at it. |
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I'm not sure if it is logging anything. Power-home is saying the commands are being sent but I'm not sure if it is actually loging the commands as not recieved? I'll have to check when I get home (darn company has RDP blocked!). There is a good possibility that I am doing my Group Command calls incorrectly.
Thanks,
Crai
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grif091
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 16:50 | IP Logged
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Just to be sure, you are talking about Insteon commands not working, not X10. Is this a general reliability problem across the entire powerline network or problems only on specific circuits. If a general problem, look for something (perhaps more than one) that are attenuating the PLC powerline signal at the source. PC and UPS power supplies are first on a list of devices that can significantly reduce the strength of the Insteon signal. An easy test is to plug the PLC into a good 3 wire extension cord and plug the extension into a circuit well away from its current location on a different circuit. If this shows improvement then you need FilterLincs on all PC and UPS equipment and perhaps other devices that are near where the PLC is currently plugged in.
Phase coupling is another area to look at but this would not be a problem across the entire network. What are you using for Insteon phase coupling, Access Points or SignaLincs.
For problems on specific circuits, unplug appliances (turning them off is not good enough) and see if improvements are observed. Folks have posted problems with cell phone chargers, TVs, and other devices that were either attenuating the powerline signal or introducing noise on the powerline.
Insteon Group commands should be the most reliable because there are two commands in a Group command sequence, either of which can cause the device to respond, plus the command retry which is part of the Group Cleanup Direct command.
Did you have a reliable Insteon powerline network at some time and it has gone bad or has it been bad forever?
EDIT: another question, do you have devices linked together which work? That is, is it only the signals from the PLC which are unreliable?
Edited by grif091 - March 17 2009 at 16:55
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cruelkix
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:01 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
| Just to be sure, you are talking about Insteon commands not working, not X10. |
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Yes Insteon and only insteon at this point.
grif091 wrote:
| PC and UPS power supplies are first on a list of devices that can significantly reduce the strength of the Insteon signal. An easy test is to plug the PLC into a good 3 wire extension cord and plug the extension into a circuit well away from its current location on a different circuit. |
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I have all the power for my PC equipment on a power strip that goes in teh top of the plug while my PLC goes in the bottom of the same plug. If what you are saying is true (which I'm sure it is) than that could be an obvious major problem. I'll try your extension cord solution. I hae a good one for power tools that I can use.
grif091 wrote:
| Phase coupling is another area to look at but this would not be a problem across the entire network. What are you using for Insteon phase coupling, Access Points or SignaLincs. |
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I'm using access points.
grif091 wrote:
For problems on specific circuits, unplug appliances (turning them off is not good enough) and see if improvements are observed. Folks have posted problems with cell phone chargers, TVs, and other devices that were either attenuating the powerline signal or introducing noise on the powerline.
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I'll keep this in mind but I'm hoping the above issue is teh culprit!
grif091 wrote:
Did you have a reliable Insteon powerline network at some time and it has gone bad or has it been bad forever?
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This is my first time with an Insteon network. I only have 4 dimmers, 2 lamp lincs, 2 access points, a remote linc, and a PLC as of right now (building slowly, this stuff is pricey!)
I apprecaite the help! I'll let you know how it goes. So teh bes tsolution is to move my computer power supply to a diffent plug and get a FilterLinc for it?
Thanks again,
Craig
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:09 | IP Logged
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Craig little known trick is to plug one of the Access Points into (piggy back) the PLC and test. This will bypass the local noise and also I separate my computers from the power line with a FilterLinc.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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cruelkix
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:15 | IP Logged
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BeachBum wrote:
| Craig little known trick is to plug one of the Access Points into (piggy back) the PLC and test. This will bypass the local noise and also I separate my computers from the power line with a FilterLinc. |
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Nice! I'll try that too. My house isnt all that big(2700 sq ft) ...
Maybe I'll leave it that way?
Only an hour till I go home! I'm excited to try some things. This reliability issue has been bothering me! It always seems like you need to buy something else tho .... haha.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:20 | IP Logged
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Look at it this way we are helping the economy by keeping SmartHome afloat. 
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: March 17 2009 at 17:23 | IP Logged
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There have been several problems diagnosed using the extension cord technique. One user went from not working at all to everything working simply by plugging the powerline interface device into a source away from the PC/UPS equipment. In this case a recently installed UPS was the cause. I would recommend putting the PC/UPS on a FilterLinc regardless of what the outcome of the extension cord test. With a FilterLinc supplying power to the PC/UPS equipment you can plug the PLC into the same power outlet. Probably requires a short extension cord from the receptacle to the FilterLinc or the PLC as two plug devices won't fit on the same outlet. I do not recommend piggybacking devices although some folks do that. A FilterLinc will isolate the devices that are being powered from the FilterLinc, preventing powerline signals from being absorbed (attenuated) by those devices and it prevents noise from the those devices from coming back on the powerline.
Because it is generally the power supply causing noise or signal attenuation, it is necessary to actually unplug devices (generally not possible at the PC) to determine if a particular device is causing a problem. Although an Insteon powerline network will never be 100%, you should be able to get it to the point where a failure is the exception rather than the rule.
Also, the more Insteon devices you install the better powerline communication tends to get because each Insteon device repeats the signals it receives.
Edited by grif091 - March 17 2009 at 17:26
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Lee G
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judetf
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| Posted: April 08 2009 at 07:41 | IP Logged
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With apologies for being clueless about things electrical, can someone suggest what criteria to use to pick between the 5-amp and the 10-amp filterlinc?
This thread has convinced me to get one (thanks, as usual, for the thorough discourse), but I don't know enough about electricity to understand what determines which to get.
I would assume that 10 is better than 5, but want to make sure that will do the trick. I don't have - but expect to get soon - a UPS for my PH computer, and I'll probably keep a few other things plugged into it once I get it. And that's what I expect I'd be plugging into the filterlinc.
Thanks,
jtf
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grif091
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| Posted: April 08 2009 at 09:42 | IP Logged
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It is not so much a question of one being better than the other, the 10 amp has more capacity than the 5 amp, but it costs more. Larger appliances draw more amps than smaller ones. A collection of smaller appliances supplied from the same outlet draw more amps than a single small appliance. The basic formula is Volts times Amps equals Watts. 120 Volts times 4 Amps equals 480 Watts. Since you are looking for an Amp value the formula becomes Watts divided by Volts equals Amps. 480 Watts divided by 120 Volts equals 4 Amps. Generally each device/appliance will either list the amps that it draws or the watts. A device that uses 500 Watts divided by 120 Volts equals 4.17 Amps.
I would suggest using a 10 amp FilterLinc for the PC/UPS. That probably gives you some excess capacity which is not a bad thing. For example, if you calculate the total Amps required at a particular outlet is 4.8 Amps, I would use a 10 Amp FilterLinc at that location. It is a good idea not to run anything at or near its maximum rating. Using a 600 Watt capacity dimmer to control 6 100 Watt light bulbs is not a good idea. The same with the FilterLincs. Determine the totals Amps being used by the application(s) being supplied by the FilterLinc and chose accordingly. You can always use all 10 amp FilterLincs but it is over kill to plug a small TV or computer requiring 1.5 amps into a 10 amp FilterLinc.
Hope that was not more information than you wanted to know.
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Lee G
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judetf
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| Posted: April 08 2009 at 11:16 | IP Logged
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Not at all! That was great, and thanks very much!
10-amp Filterlinc added to my shopping cart.
Much obliged!
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Topic: Bad Signals
