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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: July 31 2007 at 01:29 | IP Logged
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PowerHome comes highly recommended as an Insteon Network Link Manager, and I would like to use it for that function alone--I don't wish to have a PC running PowerHome 24/7 as an automation server. However, this will be in a specialized configuration, and I'm not sure whether PowerHome will work in this setup.
Basically, another developer and I are creating a scenario where a custom Salad program will run on the PLC, which will allow the PLC to have two-way communication with an Ocelot. The Ocelot will be the home automation server, sending and receiving Insteon commands via the PLC.
The custom Salad application will not make changes to the PLC's link database itself. To make changes to the network (which hopefully will be infrequent once set up), the PLC would be disconnected from the Ocelot and connected to the PC. PowerHome would then be run to perform the link changes as required, and the PLC then connected to the Ocelot once again.
Would PowerHome be able to manage the PLC's link database (as well as the rest of the Insteon network) while this custom Salad application is installed in the PLC? Or, would it require that the CoreApp be installed into the PLC each time, and if so, would the existing link database be maintained across the installing of Custom-Core-Custom Salad apps? Are there any other 'gotcha's' or potential problems with using PowerHome/Custom-PLC in this way?
ADVthanksANCE
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: August 04 2007 at 17:53 | IP Logged
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Bump.
We're at the point where we need to install the custom app in the PLC for testing. It would be very helpful to know if PowerHome will work with the custom app in there.
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TonyNo
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| Posted: August 04 2007 at 19:12 | IP Logged
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If you need a quick answer, try email...
support@power-home.com
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dhoward
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| Posted: August 04 2007 at 20:54 | IP Logged
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JAJ,
I would think that PowerHome would be able to function as link manager for your project without problems, but there may be a few caveats.
Unless your custom SALad includes the routines necessary for basic link management, PowerHome may not function properly. However, since you anticipate infrequent changes, you should be able to download the core app to PowerHome during link management and then reinstall the custom SALad when done without affecting the link database.
Another potential problem could lie in how your custom SALad intends to use the PLC database. If you just plan on sending Insteon direct commands and PLC group commands, you shouldnt have a problem. However, if you're expecting the PLC link database to conform precisely to the Insteon specifications, then you may have a problem. Since PowerHome maintains ALL Insteon link information, it became redundant to also store the details within the PLC itself. This is no way effects proper functioning of the PLC concerning links and MAY only have an effect concerning group cleanup commands (which the PLC doesnt perform anyway). PowerHome has no problem performing this link management for the Elk M1 Gold and I would suspect you wouldnt have problems either except in the case of possibly needing to swap between your custom SALad and the core app during linking operations.
The best thing to do would be to take advantage of the 30 day trial (and I can extend this if it's not enough time) and let me know what problems you encounter.
HTH,
Dave.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: August 04 2007 at 20:55 | IP Logged
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Okay, thanks Tony.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: August 04 2007 at 21:09 | IP Logged
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Dave, thanks very much for the reply. I will copy your response to the other individual, who is doing the custom SALad app (I'm more on the Ocelot end). But the custom app is doing group cleanups following a group command, so could you provide a little more detail about what may be required in that scenario, as well as regarding the basic link management routines you mentioned?
Also, he did have one specific question to ask: he had been given to understand that a PLC with CoreApp normally has a limit of 127 links, but the custom app is extending that to 255 links--would this affect the operation of PowerHome at all? My guess would be that PowerHome also uses 255 links, is that correct  ?
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dhoward
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| Posted: August 05 2007 at 22:02 | IP Logged
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Joe,
If the custom SALad is relying upon the internal PLC database to know which devices to send group cleanup commands to, then PowerHome will not work for you. PowerHome ONLY adds the ID's to the PLC a single time.
Concerning link counts...I had not heard of any predefined limit but that doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. Since PowerHome is not creating links in the PLC, it virtually has no limit on the number of links (since I know several people who would be WAY exceeding the 255 link limit) other than the remote devices. If these limits do exist, then it would be fairly limiting since I know several users who have in excess of a hundred Insteon devices. Most users create a receive link to the PLC and then have 1 or more control links from the PLC per device. The PLC itself allows control of up to 254 groups and if this limit exists, then that would limit you to controlling 1 device per group with no receive links.
Dave.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: August 06 2007 at 01:01 | IP Logged
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Dave, I sincerely appreciate you're taking the time to reply.
Yes, the custom SALad app is using the PLC link database for group cleanup commands, since we are trying to have as much functionality as possible within the PLC. Sorry to hear that PowerHome doesn't create those links. If I understand you correctly, PowerHome does not create links in the PLC in the same manner as other Insteon software (or as manual linking)? I'm at a loss to know what to use to manage the PLC links in that way.
We were planning on using the same linking paradigm as you outlined regarding devices and groups, so I agree that 255 links does sound extremely limiting. I will question him further about that.
The kind of external resources required for these operations, as provided by PowerHome, are simply out of scope for the Ocelot, so I don't know how well this will work.
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dhoward
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| Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:55 | IP Logged
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Joe,
I cant speak for other softwares link management, but PowerHome does not currently create links in the PLC in the same manner as they would be created if you were linking manually.
However, Ive been doing some research and playing around with this and have decided that I can add this ability to the "Setup" tab of the Insteon Explorer without too much trouble. Basically, you can use PowerHome to manage all of the links and PowerHome will use the current method of PLC link creation. When the links are setup and complete, you'll go to the Setup tab and select a new option "Create Full PLC Links" and PowerHome will then prep the PLC with full link information the same as if the links had been created manaully.
HTH,
Dave.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: August 07 2007 at 00:37 | IP Logged
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Dave, sincere thanks for offering to include this functionality. I have given this over to the SALad member of the project, especially as regards the links and whether we can work around that. I asked about the 127 link limit, and this was his response:
"The database starts at the top of memory and expands downward. There is no inherent limit on its size -- it is free to expand until it reaches the top of the application, which grows from the bottom up. Or at least, that is how it grows in theory. In practice -- probably to be able to present pre-defined addresses to an external application -- some I/O and other areas are defined so as to end in upper memory, leaving room for the database to expand to include 127 links before there is a conflict. I intend to move these areas so as to allow a larger database. I have not yet decided just how large it should be."
Once he has given a definite answer, I will let you know how I intend to proceed.
Again, thanks for your excellent, customer-oriented support.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: October 15 2007 at 20:06 | IP Logged
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Hi Dave. Just wanted to let you know how we are making out with this project. We have a prototype working, and are nearly ready with a beta, but this is all with a limited number of devices.
It is time now for me to beginning installing more Insteon devices, and this should tell us whether the PLC links created by PowerHome as it stands will work with this custom SALad app. If not, then the "Create Full PLC Links" option would definitely be an asset. I would think that might a good option to have available for other users in any case.
Thanks!
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dhoward
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| Posted: October 15 2007 at 20:50 | IP Logged
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Joe,
Couldnt quite tell from your message whether you knew the .12 version had this functionality or not.
When creating links with PowerHome, the links will be created the normal PowerHome way which has a single record in the PLC for each linked device. This allows for far more links than the PLC would normally permit.
However, if you want/need absolute Insteon compatibility, after the links are created, just open the Insteon Explorer and on the "Setup" tab, choose "Clear PLC Database" followed by "Add PowerHome Insteon ID's to PLC (Full)". This will create the full links in the PLC. If you later deem that you dont need the full Insteon links in the PLC, just repeat the process and choose "Add PowerHome Insteon ID's to PLC (Min)" to revert back to the standard PowerHome way of doing things.
Hope this helps and let me know how your project goes.
Dave.
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JustAnotherJoe
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| Posted: October 15 2007 at 21:07 | IP Logged
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Wow! Thank you, Dave. No, I didn't know that .12 had this ability, but I'm sure it will be very useful! Will keep you posted.
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UpstateMike
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| Posted: October 16 2007 at 10:39 | IP Logged
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I understand why all this is needed for dealing with the PLC but what I don't understand is why there is not a version of the PLM that would eliminate these issues? In other words, why do you even need to have links and the Insteon address stored in the powerline interface at all?
Edited by UpstateMike - January 09 2008 at 22:41
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Topic: PowerHome as Insteon Link Manager
