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GQuack
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| Posted: December 19 2013 at 16:56 | IP Logged
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I’ve made some progress on my path. I’ve now read a couple of times both the Insteon white paper details and PowerHome user guide version 1.03.4.5 as well as a bunch of posts on this and the Smarthome forum. I think I’ve probably done enough damage to the system through my experimentation that it makes sense for me to start over clean. Here are the steps I am planning to follow unless anyone sees any problems. I only have two plug in dimmers and one 8 button key pad installed so far as part of my learning “lab.”
1) Reset both dimmers and the keypad to factory defaults
2) Clear PLC/PLM database: via PowerHome
3) Clear PowerHome Stored Insteon links: via PowerHome
4) Clear PowerHome Stored Insteon devices: via PowerHome
These steps should give me a clean environment with which to start over.
5) Set up the devices. Since these are new Insteon devices which were not found in the list of available devices in this version of PowerHome I will follow the process in the post by GadgetGuy on December 19 2012.
http://www.power-home.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3173&KW= AutoDetect%2F+Adding+I2CS%2F+FlaggedCre
6) Manually set up the links. (This step finally dawned on me the last couple of days. I’ve been reading in numerous posts about people manually linking devices. I thought the logical place to find this in PowerHome was in the Insteon Explorer on the tab Manual Linking. After puzzling at that tab for quite some time I finally found a post that talked about dragging and dropping devices…on the Links tab.) Set up the links by dragging the appropriate devices to the responders window for the appropriate controllers
* Between the hub (controller) and each of the plug in modules (responder)
* Between the keypad (controller) and each of the plug in modules (responder)
* Between the hub (controller) and the keypad (responder?)
SAVE
One area on which I am still hazy is the relationship of group number to the button number on the keypad. I think I am clear on the concept of groups and how they are used and the unique address relationship between controller / responder. I read with interest this post started by RichardL several years ago which pretty closely discusses my area of confusion.
http://www.power-home.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2444&KW= PLM+Group+rules
In the post Richard shows some screen shots which show groups and links for keypads and buttons numbered 0-8 corresponding to the buttons (and group number) on the keypad. This is what I expected to find in my setup but in fact did not. For my keypad I see groups 1, 3, 4 but the only button number I see is 0. When I tried to change the button number for the keypad on group 3 from 0 to 3 (which mimics Richard’s post) I get an error message that button number must be 0. Huh? Can anyone shed some light on this?
7) Once I get to this point in my setup, I should be able to issue native turn on commands to the two plug in modules and if everything is set up correctly, they will work. If so,
8) I can then Add PowerHome Insteon Id’s to PLC/PLM (Full) and PowerHome will write everything to the hub.
Thank you all again.
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dhoward
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| Posted: December 20 2013 at 20:58 | IP Logged
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gquack,
Your plan for resetting to "zero" should work without an issue by following the steps you outlined. If you've been doing a lot of experimentation, this is probably a good thing to do.
"Manually" creating links is a term typically used when you're creating links without the use of software and involves you first manually pressing the "set" button on a remote device until it reaches link mode and then going to the device to link to (within 3 minutes) and pressing the "set" button until the link is created. The "Manual Linking" tab in the Insteon Explorer primarily allows you to programmatically press the set button on the PLM. This is useful if your PLM is not easily accessible or for the PLM's that don't have an actual set button (the RF Insteon stick). It does not allow you to "press" the set button of a remote device (even the bottom most area was intended to do so, it never worked as no Insteon devices actually implemented that protocol).
To create your links programmatically, you want to use the "Links" tab in the Insteon Explorer. Definitely click on each of the little question marks on this tab to get full details on all the aspects. Basically you'll set the Current device (at the top of the tab) and you'll see the Controllers and Responders of this device below. On the left, you can drag and drop devices into either the controller or responder area. After dropping, you'll have to populate some of the required fields. When all is done, click the "Save" text to save your changes and initiate the link programming.
When creating links, you want to create a link with any device that can act as a controller (a plugin lamp module does not act as a controller) and the PLM. This is so you can get status reporting if the device is locally changed. You'll also want to create links between individual devices (usually both ways in the case of 3-way type switching). Last, you'll want to create links with the PLM as the controller and what you'd like controlled as a responder. Usually these are grouped to create scenes as you don't need to create links for the PLM to just individually control devices (beyond the single link needed for I2CS devices to enable direct control). Since you've got a keypadlinc, if you're wanting to control the individual lights on the KPL, you'll need to create a link with each light as a responder.
The group number of a link is actually part of the controller side of the link (the responder link also contains the group so it can be matched but its the controller that sets this). The Button number is associated with the responder side of the link (only). You can think of the button as a responder group number. A switchlinc has 1 controller group and 1 responder group. When you create links with the switchlinc as a controller, the only group you can use is 1. When a switchlinc is set as a responder (the controlling group number can be virtually any number from 0 to 255 depending upon the controller), but the button (the responder group) must be either 0 or 1 (this is a legacy PH issue). In the case of an 8 button keypad, it has 8 controller groups and 8 responder groups. Group 1 is the upper left button and is directly tied to the load of the KPL. Group 2 is upper right, group 3 is second left, etc. When creating links with the KPL as a controller, you'll set the group to a number 1 thru 8 corresponding to the appropriate button. When the KPL is linked as a responder, the group is determined by the controller but the button will be a value of 1 to 8 based upon which individual button is to be controlled. If the button is set to 1, not only will the button be controlled but the load as well.
A common misconception is that you can link a KPL button (as a controller) to control one or more other devices and then create a link to that KPL button as a responder and controlling the button as a responder will cause the button to control the devices that it is set to as a controller. This does not work and you'll have to create your links accordingly. One more think, a KPL set to be in 6 button mode...picture it as if it were in 8 button mode. The top button (which covers button 1 and 2 in 8 button mode) is button 1 ON only. There is no button 2. The next two rows of two buttons are buttons 3 and 4 and then 5 and 6. The bottom button is button 1 OFF only. There is no button 7 or 8.
Concerning item 8. There should be no reason to "Add PowerHome Insteon ID's to PLM" if you've created all your links via the links tab as this should be done automatically. Early versions of the PLC/PLM had an issue where flaky power would zap the memory and the PLM would forget all its links. This button was provided to quickly remedy that situation.
Hope this helps,
Dave
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GQuack
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| Posted: December 22 2013 at 17:41 | IP Logged
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Dave, thank you, this is an awesome post. I can't image
how much time you spend giving individual support to your
customers and it is much appreciated. I have my training
lab up and working now. Devices added correctly, links
working correctly controlled via the keypad with the
appropriate groups. Your explanation helped a bunch. I am
still seeing some interesting things I need to research
some more. The control center is working fine, the
devices are there in the appropriate locations and
control works fine. I also have the default web server up
and running but I seem to have some issue with
controlling the devices. The locations are there, the
devices are there, but I get no reaction at all from the
control buttons for the devices. I am checking out
various posts now to see if I can figure out what is
going on here. Acts like it thinks I am a guest with no
access rights but I have the settings for access set to
"Any" for all selections to see if that would make a
difference but not so much yet.
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dhoward
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| Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:30 | IP Logged
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gquack,
Glad to here its making a little more sense. Definitely alot to learn and complicated subject.
Concerning controlling devices via the webserver...if you're referring to the Control Center screens and on/off buttons, then they won't give any indication (visual) that they've been pressed. The web based Control Center is just an approximation of an actual CC screen and doesnt have the button push feedback of the dedicated control centers (however, this has been added to the list of feature requests).
Not sure about the access issue. I would need some more details (maybe some incoming eventlog entries) to better be able to understand what is going on.
Dave.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:49 | IP Logged
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Meaning there is no automatic way that the results are displayed after a change has been made to the CC. I do a manual redisplay with the click of a button and my screen is refreshed. It's funky but it works for me. I do look forward to interactive though. Dave, I think we talked about this a couple of years ago.
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GQuack
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| Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:20 | IP Logged
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Well maybe this is just my misunderstanding. On the webserver home page I see my devices shown in their proper locations, status and on the extreme left is the control drop down where I see on, off or any of the multitude of dimming percentages. According to the user manual I was expecting to be able to control the devices by selecting one of those values but I am not able to select any of them. Control of the devices via the control center screens themselvers works just fine.
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dhoward
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| Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:25 | IP Logged
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gquack,
Nope, you are correct. I was assuming you were referring to the Control Center web page. On the main (Device Status) page as you described, you should be able to select values from the dropdowns and control your devices. You may have to "refresh" the screen to see the correct status by clicking the refresh at the top of page as there is sometimes a delay in the command actually being executed and the status updated. As soon as you select a dropdown, the screen should refresh.
Now, if this is not working, then something is wrong. I know that there is an issue with the "Web Control Center" within PowerHome and the Microsoft Internet Explorer activex control (which this screen uses) does not like the dropdowns for some reason. But Ive seen it work in every other browser Ive tried. Not sure if you have another browser installed, but if you do, give it a try so we can narrow down the issue to something within the webserver or not.
Sorry to keep editing but I want to make sure Im not misunderstood. Internet Explorer the browser works fine (every version Ive tried). Its just the IE activeX control which seems to have a problem.
Thanks,
Dave.
Edited by dhoward - December 23 2013 at 17:29
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BeachBum
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| Posted: December 23 2013 at 21:13 | IP Logged
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As Dave indicated you might have a IE problem. I'm running Win 8.1 with the latest Active x loaded and I am able to control the dim through the web connection. I'm connecting through 192.168.1:5510 on a local system to another device on the same segment that is running PH.
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GQuack
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| Posted: December 24 2013 at 09:56 | IP Logged
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Dave you were right that it was just an issue within the web control center. It does work fine accessing the web server via both IE and Chrome.
On to my next lesson: I’ve made a couple of small steps forward and a couple of steps sideways. I was able to successfully execute my first macro and timed event (very simple).
My next foray was for two purposes; 1) learn how to set up and control a group via the keypad button 2/B, and 2) within that group, control the load of the keypad itself.
Based on Dave’s posts that seemed like a straightforward exercise. My steps were to:
• Pick an arbitrary group number: 50
• Define group 50 within the PLC/PLM group tab
• Set up the keypad as controller for group 50, on button 2
• Set up the two lamplinc’s as responders to the keypad, group 50, button 0
• Set up the keypad as responder to the keypad group 50, for button 1
I wasn't totally clear on how I needed to set up the links for the PLM itself.
I got blown out of the water immediately when PH would not allow a value in the group field for the lamplinc’s of anything other than the keypad button values. I then tried for the next 3 hours rereading the posts and trying every combination I could think of to figure out what was required. I have the two lamplinc’s working together just fine being controlled by button 2 of the keypad but I cannot get the keypad load to respond nor see any recognition of group 50.
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GQuack
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| Posted: December 27 2013 at 12:48 | IP Logged
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Never mind folks, figured it out.
As Dave said, group is based on the controller. If the
keypad is being used as the controller of the group, the
only available groups are 1-8 corresponding to the keypad
buttons. If the PLM is set as the controller, you have all
the available groups which can be set. Duh - makes sense
now. Onward..... 
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dhoward
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| Posted: December 29 2013 at 19:04 | IP Logged
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gquack,
Sorry to take so long responding but see that you got it worked out  . You're definitely making progress.
Dave.
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Topic: Path to enlightenment part 2
