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kemporama
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| Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:45 | IP Logged
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Does anyone know if there's an Insteon compatible device that exists out there that functions similar to an I/O Linc but instead of having a constant open or closed connection on the COM port can just send a momentary open or closed signal?
The device I'm trying to connect to with the I/O linc can't handle a constant open or constant closed signal, it makes the device not work properly when the I/O linc is connected to it. It needs just momentary signals sent to it.
What I have is a WaterCop leak detection system that the main controller box has an interface port I can supposedly link into to be able to control it thru a home automation system.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as this has been driving me crazy.
Thank you!
Edited by kemporama - September 17 2010 at 15:00
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kemporama
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| Posted: September 17 2010 at 15:05 | IP Logged
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Update:
I was just able to kind of get this to work using 2 I/O Lincs... From the Watercop I have a wire running to both the N/C and Common ports on the first I/O linc and on the second one I have wires going to the N/O and Common ports from the Watercop. I can accomplish what I need to with turning the device on and off and still have the device function as it should without being connected at all to it, but there's a whole sequence of taps on the I/O Lincs (which would eventually be commands from inside PH) to get it to work each time to switch it's state. I need to simplify it to make it practical to use.
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grif091
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| Posted: September 17 2010 at 15:53 | IP Logged
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The I/O Linc relay operates in the default Latching mode (On or Off based to specific command) or in one of three (3) Momentary modes where the output relays turns On with a specific command and then turns Off automatically in some number of seconds that are specified when the link is established. Momentary mode is often used in Garage Door installations where the output relay needs to simulate a manual button press.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: September 22 2010 at 23:08 | IP Logged
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I've tried changing to the momentary modes and didn't have any luck with fixing the overall situation unfortunately.
It sounds like for the unit to work properly both the open and closed signals have to be momentary, and the rest of the time no signal at all is being sent. Basically the I/O Linc would have to be sending no signal 99.9% of the time and then just for a second or two at a shot send an open or closed signal to the Watercop. That's the problem I'm running into because I don't think the I/O Linc can do that, it has to be in either open or closed status.
I'm wondering if something like the device talked about in this recent post would be appropriate? Ideally I'd like to use the I/O Linc since I already bought it and all, but I'm open to other options if this just won't work. Thanks.
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grif091
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| Posted: September 22 2010 at 23:35 | IP Logged
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The IO Linc output relay can be momentary on the NO side but a relay cannot be momentary on both the NO side and the NC side. The mechanics of a relay does not permit that. You could use 2 IO Lincs. The NO of IO Linc 1 drives the Water Cop in one direction. The NC of IO Linc 1 would be wired to the Common of IO Linc 2 with the NO of IO Linc 2 driving the Water Cop in the other direction. Both would be in momentary mode. Running IO Linc 2 from the NC of IO Linc 1 would insure that the Water Cop could not be commanded in both directions at the same time.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 14:45 | IP Logged
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I finally have some time to get back to this.
Lee- I hooked this up with 2 I/O lincs I believe how you said, but I'm not able to get the I/O lincs to control the Watercop at all. It doesn't respond no matter what buttons on the I/O linc I press in what order. Does something have to maybe run to the 5VDC port on the Watercop? If so, from where?
Here's what I have connected now:
IO#1 N/C to IO#2 Com
IO#1 N/O to Watercop pin 5 (closed)
IO#2 N/O to Watercop pin 6 (open)
Thanks!
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grif091
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 17:31 | IP Logged
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When you had it working but not the way you wanted it did you connect to the 5V on the I/O Linc or take power from the WaterCop? I looked for a wiring diagram on line but could not find one.
EDIT: I would use the power from the WaterCop rather than the 5V from the I/O Linc. To use the 5V from the I/O Linc requires the GND from both devices be connected to establish the I/O Linc voltage. Also was not able to determine the WaterCop relay voltage. Found the WaterCop manual wall switch which means the WaterCop must have a +V connection for the manual wall switch.
Edited by grif091 - October 17 2010 at 19:56
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 20:36 | IP Logged
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Here's a link to the Watercop manual. The wiring diagram is on the last page:
http://www.absoluteautomation.com/documents/usr/manuals/wate rcopmanual.pdf
When I had it hooked up before I was using the 5V connection on the Watercop and running that to the COM on the IO Linc. I like the idea too of using power from the Watercop rather than the IO Linc (Sounds like a safer option to have power flow out of WC rather than into it, an IO Linc is a lot cheaper to replace in case it sends thru something it shouldn't and blows it up!)
What would I connect the 5V spot on the WC to on the IO Linc(s)? Sorry, this stuff still confuses me.
Thanks!
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grif091
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 20:50 | IP Logged
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The 5V from the WaterCop goes to the Com on I/O Linc 1.
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 22:26 | IP Logged
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Perfect! That did the trick. One IO turns the WC on and the other IO turns it off. Thank you!!! 
Now a followup question. Keeping the current capabilities in place, is there some way that when the WC changes status from its end (either closing itself when a leak is detected or when I push the buttons on it) that the IOLincs can sense if the WC valve is open or closed so I can set up a trigger for it in SH to do something? Maybe using the sense terminals on the IOLinc somehow? I'm told by WC support that on the WC terminals 2(NC), 3(COMM), and 4(NO) are used to provide the position of the valve.
Thanks!
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grif091
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| Posted: October 17 2010 at 22:40 | IP Logged
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In the distant past I worked with someone who was using an SHN EZIO2X4 (similar to an I/O Linc but with 4 Inputs and 2 relays in one device). He hooked up the connections from the two lights on the WaterCop to Inputs (Sensor) on the EZIO2X4 but found that the voltage on the light circuit was not a good digital signal. As a result the Inputs (Sensor) cycled from On to Off many times as the WaterCop moved the water valve. I suspect the I/O Linc would have a similar problem. You can try connecting the WaterCop lights one to each I/O Linc Sensor and see what happens but I suspect the Sensor will cycle many times while the water value is being opened or closed.
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 18 2010 at 00:06 | IP Logged
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I'm sooo close now!
Everything looks to be working right from the hardware side, just one minor PH thing I'm confused on. I hooked up the Watercop's NO and NC terminals each to a sense port on the IOLinc. Nothing lit up, so then I connected a wire to the COM terminal on the WC to the Ground terminal on one of the IOLincs, and then added a wire between the two IOLincs so that the 2nd one could get the COM connection too. That made it all work properly! When the WC gets triggered on and off the sense light is lighting on the appropriate IO and I can see it hitting the PH log.
There's just one weird thing I'm seeing in the PH log It's only referencing group ons and offs from one of the IOLincs. It never logs anything about the activity of the other device even though the sense comes on on it. This isn't the end of the world because I think I can base the triggers on just the one device, but it would nice to see in the log that the other IO is getting its sense turned on.
Should I maybe be wiring something differently for this piece of the puzzle?
Thank you!
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grif091
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| Posted: October 18 2010 at 07:22 | IP Logged
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If you are seeing both I/O Lincs indicate Sense changes but only one I/O Linc is sending Group On/Off messages it sounds like the I/O Linc that is not sending messages is not linked as a controller to the PH PLM.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 18 2010 at 10:23 | IP Logged
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You were right. Can't believe I missed that.
The weird thing is after I added the PLM to the IOLinc I forgot is that now it is the only one of the two that are hitting the PH log. It basically just flip flopped which IOLinc is showing in the logs. Both are identical with the PLM as both a controller and responder. I've run a rebuild on both devices also and that doesn't change anything. I don't get it. Is there something else I should look for?
Thanks.
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grif091
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| Posted: October 18 2010 at 17:27 | IP Logged
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Assuming both I/O Lincs have valid controller links to the PLM and the PLM has valid responder links for each I/O Linc the only way I can explain what is happening is the I/O Linc Sensors are being triggered at the same time. Group commands are initiated by all Insteon devices when paddle/button/sensor changes state. Insteon architecture causes a device to cancel a Group sequence if another Group sequence is detected on the powerline. Perhaps both I/O Lincs are sending at the same time but that is a real stretch.
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Lee G
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kemporama
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| Posted: October 24 2010 at 14:10 | IP Logged
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Right now I have the IOLincs plugged in piggyback to each other in one plug. Maybe if I move them to their own separate outlets that will be far enough apart to not be their signals at the exact same moment? I also tried chaning the momentary timing on one of them to longer than the default 2 seconds but that didn't seem like it helped. Both devices log fine when I click the button on them manually.
Like I said, it's not the end of the world if I can only get the actions from one of the devices, I should be able to program my triggers ok, would just be nice to see both entries in the log though.
Thanks.
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Topic: Device similar to I/O Linc?
