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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 15 2008 at 12:18 | IP Logged
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Now that the PLM has been out for awhile,  anyone got positive or negative feedback on whether the PLM or the PLC works better with PH.
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Pete - X10 Oldie
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grif091
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| Posted: April 15 2008 at 15:31 | IP Logged
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Dave announced an ALPHA release a few days ago containing support for the PLM. Look at the topic "PowerHome Alpha Available". Tried to paste the URL but the end of it was cut off.
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Lee G
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 15 2008 at 15:35 | IP Logged
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Saw it Lee that’s what prompted my post. Thks.... 
Edited by BeachBum - April 15 2008 at 16:32
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grif091
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| Posted: April 15 2008 at 16:29 | IP Logged
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Oops, sorry Pete. I actually had read your post when you installed it. Getting OLD!
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Lee G
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GSOUZA
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 01:33 | IP Logged
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for me, PLM is working better.
I had a lot of problems with PLC, hangs almost every week. PLM is working fine till now and im using an old version 2.4 firmware 52 that Dave said isnt good (could hang) but for me is working fine.
I just ordered a new one. arriving at end of week.
let me test more and i will post results. but for now, its 1x0 for PLM :)
cheers,
Gustavo
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nadler
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 09:33 | IP Logged
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I have the same question as Pete.
What are the advantages of the PLM and PowerHome over the PLC and PowerHome?
I know it eliminates the SDM. That's a plus since right now if I try to shutdown my PH machine it won't shutdown unless I manually close the SDM. In addition, sometimes the PLC has to be 'rebooted.' Also, sometimes PH won't automatically load on startup. It sometimes hangs. I don't know whether that's a SDM issue or not.
There is talk on the Smarthome forum that the PLM is less sensitive than the PLC. That would be a problem.
Does the PLM have the capability of extented Insteon commands and the PLC doesn't? If so, what would the extended commands do? I have mostly older Insteon devices which do not support the extended commands (I think). Would the PLM and PH work with a 'mixed' Insteon network?
If anyone knows the answers to any or all of the questions, chime in.
Noel
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funbobbybaby69
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 10:23 | IP Logged
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Ya sometimes my PH won't automatically load on startup too, it sometimes freezes. I thought it was just because of my DVR softwere for my security camera's. It starts on boot up and looked to me like it was conflicting.... possibly its just PH?
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grif091
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 13:24 | IP Logged
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Some of your questions have definite answers. Smarthome has a comparison chart for PLC versus PLM. Look at the Smarthome device information for 2412S (the PLM) and click on the More Info tab. A PLM does support Extended Messages, the PLC does not. There is not a mixed Insteon network issue, the Smarthome devices have been evolving in function for years. There are some things coming that require the use of Extended Messages. You won't be able to access those new things through your software unless the software can use Extended Messages. Look at the "PowerHome Alpha Available" forum topic that Dave opened when he announced the alpha. He mentions the need to have support for Extended Messages. Simplehomenet wants to move away from the PLC for the same Extended Message reason. The PLM does eliminate the need for the SDM. Dave mentioned that the PLM runs faster than the PLC. The PLM spec says room for 2016 links compared to the 417 for the PLC.
The rest is much less than definitive. I have used a PLC for two years and it has never hung. I do not have a PLM to compare to. If you scan the various forums you will see some folks have issues with the PLC and think the PLM is better. Others point at the PLM for the problems they are having. Posts are happening all day across the various forums but I have not seen any one post that has identified a specific hardware or firmware issue. Long ago some devices were overheating, that is a fact and those were replaced. The Smarthome specs do say the PLC has a minimum receive level of 10 mVpp where the PLM spec says 20 mVpp. Is that an issue when devices are transmitting at 3.2 Vpp and each is a repeater. Some point at that as an issue with the PLM, but it seems like there would have to be a significant powerline problem for that to make any difference. The difference could be viewed as a plus because the PLM is less sensitive to noise. Some folks point at anything they can find when they want to support or fault a particular situation. The PLM versus PLC question is likely to be alive for a long time. My guess is the PLM will become the main interface to the powerline if for no other reason than support for Extended Messages. If the PLM has problems, they will be fixed, as other Insteon devices have in the past. That is only one man's opinion and I am sure others may disagree.
Edited by grif091 - April 16 2008 at 13:46
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nadler
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 14:30 | IP Logged
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Lee, thanks for the info. I had seen the PLC/PLM comparision by smarthome, but it really wasn't very elucidating.
I guess my question is, should I replace my working PLC with a new PLM? What would I gain? Better signal? Increased reliability? Faster network? When PH impliments extended messaging, would it be worth it at that point to get a PLM? What would the extended messages do? Should I wait for a more 'mature' PLM before I purchase?
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grif091
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 17:53 | IP Logged
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Not very elucidating at all. My PLC is working just fine so I plan to hold off getting a PLM for two reasons. It will take Dave some time to get a PH Beta released with PLM and maybe Extended Message support. Second, it gives a little more time to see if the PLM discussions on the forums reach some conclusion. Once the PH Beta is available I will switch to a PLM because I believe that is the device for the future. More links, faster, support for Extended Messages that will be needed some time. Not sure the network will be any more reliable as mine is fine the way it is. Certainly do not expect the network to be less reliable. However, I will not buy the PLM until I plan to use it, just in case it is updated.
If I had a need, like my PLC dies, or some Insteon device becomes available that, 1) I want, and 2) it requires the PLM, I would not hesitate to get a PLM today (except I would really like to have a PH Beta rather than the alpha). I think the PLM is more than stable enough to use, despite some negative posts on various forums. Just not enough benefit right now for me to make an arbitrary move from PLC to PLM. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I can afford to wait for Dave's Beta. Hope that helps.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 18:19 | IP Logged
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I definitely will wait until the Beta with PLM support has settled down a bit. But I do have a reliability issue with SDM. Twice yesterday PH had to restart the SDM and once I had to intervene as it got into an “execution loop” which brought the network down to a crawl. The end result was any ph_getinsteonlevelrt was failing. My concern is the reports on other forums about output level being reduced because of heat in the latest firmware. I don’t know if that was a bogus report or not.
BTW you guys keep using words beyond the default 8th grade vocabulary default generator I’m going to have to elucidate my spell check.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 20:08 | IP Logged
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I had no problems with SDM3.EXE running PowerHome but did have problems when I tried using Houselinc Desktop after PH brought up its version of sdm3.exe. The active version of sdm3.exe in the PH folders was not the level Simplehomenet Utility Suite used nor the level that Houselinc Desktop used. In the PH folder containing sdm3.exe was this...
sdm3.exe 1152K 6/21/2006
sdm3.exe.245 1152k 6/21/2006
sdm3.exe.308 1345k 12/5/2006
The statistics for sdm3.exe.308 matched the sdm3.exe used by Simplehomenet and Houselinc Desktop. I renamed sdm3.exe to sdm3.exe.xxx and renamed sdm3.exe.308 to sdm3.exe.
There is an sdm3.tlb in the same folder along with a .245 and .308 version. Don't know what a .tlb file is used for so I also followed the same renaming sequence for this file.
Now Houselinc Desktop is working (as it always was before installing PH) and PH is running okay as well. No idea if moving to the later sdm3.exe would help or hurt you. Renaming the original files from .exe and .tbl to .exe.xxx and .tlb.xxx lets me back track if PH starts to misbehave.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 23:11 | IP Logged
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Actually Dave has batch files that will do the renames for which version you want. Run either 235 or 308 which ever floats your boat. Personally I found 235 to be more reliable.
Edited by BeachBum - April 16 2008 at 23:11
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grif091
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| Posted: April 16 2008 at 23:38 | IP Logged
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With 235 having to be restarted twice and going into a loop once, I hate to think what was happening with 308. I started PH a few hours ago (using 308) and will let it run until something fails. Thanks for the info on the rename batch files. I can go back to 235 if 308 gives me a problem. Houselinc shuts down the sdm when it shuts down. PH leaves it up. I can always shut down 235 manually before switching to Houselinc if needed. Only using Houselinc for the Insteon trace. How do you trace raw Insteon traffic?
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 17 2008 at 09:01 | IP Logged
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grif091 wrote:
| How do you trace raw Insteon traffic? |
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I use the DM screen and the "save logs".
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grif091
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| Posted: April 17 2008 at 11:00 | IP Logged
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Pete, you mean SDM screen, I did not know it had a screen. Learn something new every day. I'll look into it. Thanks.
EDIT: I just opened the SDM screen. Thanks again.
Edited by grif091 - April 17 2008 at 11:02
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 17 2008 at 11:23 | IP Logged
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I did mean DM screen. Go one step further and type DM in the blank area after the last entry. Enjoy...
Edited by BeachBum - April 17 2008 at 11:24
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dhoward
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| Posted: April 21 2008 at 11:43 | IP Logged
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In my experience so far, I would say the PLM is the way to go. When I initially started coding for the PLM, I hated it. It's supposed to be a lower level device than the PLC, but it's not. However, after getting further into the development and working around some of it's shortcomings, it is a much quicker, more reliable device than the PLC.
The PLM is also capable of extended commands, the PLC is not. PH does not yet support extended commands, but will shortly. This will greatly speed link reading/writing. PowerHome will still support the current method, but SmartHome may completely deprecate it at some point in the future.
So, if the PLC is working for you for now, you may want to wait and see if any newer firmware PLM's come out. If the PLC/SDM is problematic for you, go ahead and upgrade to the PLM since the latest version now seems to be stable.
HTH,
Dave.
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BeachBum
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| Posted: April 28 2008 at 08:36 | IP Logged
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Now that I have successfully switched over to the PLM an interesting note. I have a routine that polls each Insteon devise in real time and with the PLC it took approximately 24 to 30 seconds to complete. With the PLM it is consistently completing in 12 seconds. Just food for thought.
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grif091
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| Posted: April 28 2008 at 22:48 | IP Logged
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Without the benefit of the sdm3 log when using a PLM, how does one trace Insteon network messages?
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Lee G
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Topic: PLC vs PLM
