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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 00:34 | IP Logged
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Hi all,
I have an all-insteon network and was originally trying to keep it that way, but I'm thinking I'll need more both for flexibility and cost.
The next add-on is motion sensors ... I first considered the insteon solution like this one:
http://www.smarthome.com/31275k.html
... but, I'm thinking of going with a W800RF32A instead, since there seems to be more availability of components and really, I don't require direct linking to insteon devices. I'll have powerhome run triggers/macros.
Any tips/suggestions for those that have done this? I'm somewhat concerned with range (meaning the distance the transmitter needs to send signals to the receiver ... the sensors themselves will be very close to the walkways/driveways). Something like this looks good:
http://www.smarthome.com/4087.html
... but I'd need the transmitted signals to go a hundred feet or so, through a window to the room where the computer/receiver is.
I'd appreciate your suggestions!
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patrickm
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 04:56 | IP Logged
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I have a number of those working with a few receivers spread out throughout my place. They are quite barbaric relative to Insteon devices but work alright. I wouldn't be using them for your primary security sensors however. I have an ELK panel with hardwired sensors as well.
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TonyNo
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 09:06 | IP Logged
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Here is some good info I just found on motion sensors at the X10 wiki.
Range is stated at 100'.
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wasdvd
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 11:39 | IP Logged
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While the Eagle Eyes (MS14A and MS16A) "read" like they should work well, and they really are made for exposed use, and they are inexpensive, I have not had satisfactory results.
The RF range I need is less than 50', and that seems fine. Reliable detection is my issue. I have tried to use them for room entry, closet entry, and outside walkway detection with very hit/miss results.
Sometimes I can jump up and down and do flips with out detection. Other times with the same sensor, detection is normal.
I have had a much higher success rate with the MS10A. They are slightly more expensive, lots larger, white and are not for exposed locations. They use 4 AA batteries vs 2 AAA for the Eagle Eye.
I believe the MS10A uses the extended X10 code set, and it assigns its own code as batteries are inserted. This means that a different code will assign as batteries are replaced, if they are dead or removed for an extended time. It also means that your RF receiver must detect the extended codes. The W800RF32A works great for this.
The MS14A and MS16A are manually set with the standard house code plus device code.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 11:40 | IP Logged
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Thanks for the replies!
Yeah, as for usage, it's primarily about auto-lighting ... turning on the garage lights, walkway, etc. Security sensors are all hard wired.
So if you had to do it over again, Patrick, would you do it differently?
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wasdvd
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 11:48 | IP Logged
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The MS10A's work well for the uses you describe, depending on the exposure for the walkway.
If I were to do it over, I would use the Insteon RF motion senors. Whoops, they haven't released any yet, but I can hope.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 12:54 | IP Logged
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Ha! Exactly right. If they had Insteon RF motion sensors, or had them even remotely scheduled within the next year, I'd wait. But realistically, who knows when they'll come out.
One thing I like about the the MS10A's is the size ... nice and compact, easy to hide.
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TonyNo
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 16:14 | IP Logged
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YMMV. My experience with X10 motion sensors has been virtually flawless.
Edited by TonyNo - June 09 2007 at 16:14
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 16:23 | IP Logged
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Tony -- which ones do you use? And do you use them exclusively w/ PH to trigger macros?
Thx!
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TonyNo
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 17:52 | IP Logged
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The units I have are Hawkeye II's (RMS18) and I just trigger things in PH.
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patrickm
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 18:25 | IP Logged
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If I were to do it over again, I would hard wire all the motion sensors AND I would run Cat5 cable the next time. I pulled tens of thousands of feet of wire thinking I had thought of everything only to wish I had some more conductors in some spot.
My experience with X10 sensors has been OK but I'm not expecting them to work like a IR/Microwave motion detector.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 20:17 | IP Logged
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Well, I could certainly run low-voltage sensors, if such a thing exists. I figured X10-RF would be the most reliable way to communicate the signals to Powerhome as opposed to relying on the power lines ... I could also run a hard wired connection to my central server, though I'm not sure what kind of interface I'd use to hook it up with powerhome. By this point, though, I'm probably back to this:
http://www.smarthome.com/31275k.html
:)
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patrickm
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 21:38 | IP Logged
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Take a look at the Elk M1.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 09 2007 at 22:53 | IP Logged
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Yeah, I've got a Caddx NX-8 that was installed previously (before we moved in the house)... not sure if I can hook that up to home automation but I'll look into it. I'm not that interested (yet) in hooking up my home automation to security, but who knows...
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 18:24 | IP Logged
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I ultimately decided to try both the MS10a and MS16a (they are cheap enough) -- both work pretty well and I can see different uses for each.
Now, the larger MS10A uses extended x10 -- there doesn't seem to be a way that I can set the unit/house code on the device. The manual mentions that it would be set by the security panel, which I'm not using.
Have you set the code otherwise? I'm fine just using the code it's currently transmitting on, but thought if I get another it would probably conflict. Also, I'm not sure what the "data" I'm seeing on the code transmitted means. Thoughts?
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bmil
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| Posted: June 21 2007 at 22:49 | IP Logged
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bhlonewolf,
As you stated, the MS10a's don't use the X10 House/Unit/On/Off codes. They use the X10 "security" format. Each unit set's up a random "security" ID whenever it's powered-up (I believe it can change when you replace the battery). The W800RF32A can also process x10 devices that use this "security" format.
If you go to the W800RF32A (www.wgldesigns.com) site I'm pretty sure they have docs on the x10 "security" format.
Edited by bmil - June 21 2007 at 22:52
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 01:02 | IP Logged
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I'll check into it-- thx!
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:24 | IP Logged
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I checked into the docs but haven't figured out how I can differentiate between different MS10As in PH via the W800RF32. If I have only 1, no problem ... but if I install 2, I'm not sure how I can differentiate between the two...
In my case I'm not using them for security, but I do like the MS10A's performance so far.
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wasdvd
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:11 | IP Logged
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In the Reports>Event log you will see the information regarding the MS10A ID. Using the extended commands should be more flexible than the older house/unit code. In addition, you should not pick up neighbor's X10 units.
As I understand it, each time you replace the batteries, if they have been out long enough, the device will take on a new, random, ID. Just move in front of the device and look in the event log for the identify.
I believe there is also a button on the back of the MS10A which forces a new ID.
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bhlonewolf
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:19 | IP Logged
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Thanks wasdvd!
Yeah, I set up the trigger fine before (I saw previously in the log it was coming in as device 128). There's also a Data message, such as:
Unit 128 Data: 12
Unit 128 Data: 140
The "12" seems to always happen first, followed in about 10 seconds by the 140.
So, this leaves me with a couple questions -- I suppose if I plug in another MS10A (which I don't have yet) it may or may not pick another code, but I guess it's really about trial and error, and assuming the code won't change unless I replace the batteries, which would then mean I need to go back to the trigger setup. I can live with that.
The next is figuring out what each code means.
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Topic: Motion sensors and beyond...
